Biting Dog

[JollyHostess101]

The post id never wanted to write! Sorry it's long but I'm heartbroken but I just don't trust our dog anymore 😢

Really long story cut short we rehomed a dog between lockdowns and he had issues- reactive on lead to other dogs and was scared of literally everything!

We worked hard with behavioursist and we'd got him to a place we were happy! Still reactive on lead with other dogs but absolutely fine off lead!

We had a baby last year and he was fine withe baby (obviously never left them alone etc) we've also moved more rurally so lots more walks and lots of other doggies!

On a walk yesterday someone was stroking him in the park and the little kids train let of its whistle and he bit the person stroking him without warning! And this evening I've gone to kiss my husband good night on the sofa and the dog (who was on the floor)has lunged and gone to bite him)

We're going round have to contact Spaniel
Aid aren't we? I simply do not trust him- what if our little one gets through the gate we have between rooms to keep them apart it's unthinkable but he's part of the family so we're so sos torn!

I know my in laws will offer to take him but I don't think I'd want him to not be with us but still come to visit- would it be best to put him to sleep?

I know my in laws will offer to take him but I don't think I'd want him to not be with us but still come to visit- would it be best to put him to sleep

Have you forgotten your original post OP?

@ToffeeSquirrels it's a question would it be best? I was mulling over a lot yesterday evening would it be cruel to hand him over then he comes back to visit and is confused?

I honestly don't know.......

The dog was terrified - most dogs react like that when they are scared. It’s basic instinct which any respectable dog owner (or someone with basic common sense) should know. And as for the second instant chances are OP loomed over it and terrified it

I too would PTS Iin this situation, and have had to do with a rescued JRT. It was far kinder than putting him through the stress of being rehomed again.

It's very difficult living with a dog that bites unpredictably, and not tenable in my opinion. PTS best option.

Thank you for this and explaining about spaniel aid- what amazing work you do for dogs as a fosterer!

We don't loom over him as that's one of his triggers we learned pretty early so never lean over him!

He's 5 and get 2/3 massive walks a day!

@JollyHostess101 how long is long? 2-3 miles off lead? Mental stimulation?

Oh and @Killingoffmyflowersonebyone we just came straight home and he stayed on his bed which is in the living room separated from us in the living room!

Last night we put him the other side again but took him out for his normal lasts night walk!

Did the dog break the skin of the person that they bit? This to me is very important as not breaking the skin shows the dog has a good bite inhibition and therefore is a safer dog.
If the dog broke the skin then my opinion about what I would do would be very different.

Normally an hour each walk during the day and about 30/40 mins last thing at night!

Mental stimulation has dropped as obviously we can't have him with us if the toddlers about so will look to increase this!

Red cocker rage is a well known issue. You are incorrect

This is not rage. There are clear triggers and anyone who knows anything about animal behaviour would know this. Rage is sudden and onset - it does not have a trigger which both these situations did (noise in park and OP kissing DH)

@JollyHostess101 definitely try SA. You can’t have the dog around your child, obviously, but I think there’s probably more going on here given the triggers and it does warrant a proper check. Aggression from nowhere (with triggers) always warrants a vet check.

I am sorry though - I’ve been there with a difficult dog (and a young child) and it’s awful. Ultimately, mine was PTS (ironically for rage related tendencies after four different vets, including myself, did everything we could to help - so those saying this is rage really are talking nonsense). But try a charity first. They do have spaces and even if SA can’t help they will provide advice and support.

Im sorry but your main priority is your daughter. I have spaniels myself and love them dearly BUT I couldn’t live in fear of them biting anyone and shouldn’t have to. Try to rehome asap making them aware of his problems, if this isn’t possible I’m afraid I’d have to have him pts.
Do not feel guilty about making your home a safe place for your children

I've just seen your post on that Facebook group and the responses are very measured, kind and give you good advice, so not sure where you've got the 'horribly judged' part from

I would also contact Spaniel Aid or get in touch with a good behaviourist to get to the root of the issue, and give you more insight into his triggers and how to spot subtle body language from him to see he's uncomfortable. I appreciate you've done a lot of work with him over the past couple of years and understand that you can't trust him around your toddler now (I'd feel the same, it must be very stressful). So maybe rehoming him to a specialist rescue who can really help him is the kindest thing to do for all of you.

Why would you have him back to visit to your house, when you would be rehoming him with your in laws to get him away from your child? Your posts are full of contradictions.
I'm sure any dog would rather be alive and living in a loving home than PTS on the off chance they would be upset or confused.

Red cocker rage is a well known issue. You are incorrect

There's actually a lot of debate about whether "rage syndrome" exists at all, but even if it did, what OP describes is not rage. It's a dog who was triggered and bit out of fear.

There was one last night that basically called me a stupid careless owner with some expletives which really stung last night but it's since disappeared as I've been going through them this morning they are helpful- that's really what I was looking for!

@ToffeeSquirrels would my in laws never come to visit again? You're just having a go now so I won't engage with you as it's not really helping!

Thanks to everyone who has offered suggestions and advice it's really a hard situation to be in!

But like we've done from the start we'll work through it for the best thing for all of us!

I have seen it personally very recently and as a result have carried out a lot of research into it. If I hadn’t been experienced I would have been savaged by the dog.

If it isn’t cocker rage then the OP still has a dog who triggers easily and bites. Fear or no fear she can’t have a dog like that near her child. She has had support and help and it clearly isn’t working well enough. She will be lucky if the person who the dog bit doesn’t go to police.

I am currently working with four red cockers, all rescues rehomed to sensible families who are working hard with them.

One Is doing very well. One is a wreck who can’t leave house without being muzzled and doubled leaded by a very strong owner who walks dual carriageways as parks are out altogether. One is responding well to training but can’t be near children of any sort even young teens and one literally screams if anything triggers her at all ( day of the dead screaming), she is agrophobic and can only be walked every ten days or so in the pitch black of early morning, again parks are out for her.
In my opinion all of them were rehomed to sensible owners who were not told the extent of their difficulties and issues.

There is only so many things you can do to limit the risks with dogs who are ‘triggered’ easily. Living with a reactive dog is incredibly hard work ( and expensive). I know because one of my own dogs is a very damaged puppy farm rescue. We have worked very hard to limit her world to one that keeps her and the rest of us safe. The second she breaks my skin she will be pts on vets orders. Thankfully my other dogs have managed to teach her bite inhibition so while she may react so far she has managed to control herself enough not to hurt me. She is medicated and gets very regular vet support. She will not be going into rescue, no matter how well meaning, as I simply wouldn’t pass the risk forward.
I firmly believe ( and have seen the results) that rescues don’t always tell the full truth/minimise the dogs reactivity.
I also believe that there are worse things for a reactive/rage/aggressive dog than to be pts.

I don't disagree that bring PTS is often the kindest option @Potentialmadcatlady but I do think it's irresponsible to try and diagnose an animal you've never met with a condition that many people believe doesn't even exist to begin with.

Personally I think a lot of the issues we see with red cockers are down to poor breeding (ie. breeding for colour rather than temperament) and the dogs then ending up in pet homes which are totally unsuited to their needs.

I've seen so, so many spaniels (both on here and IRL) who live in homes that are completely unsuitable - and then inevitably the dog becomes anxious and frustrated and it shows in their behaviour.

Let's be honest, working cockers are cute, compact and very appealing - it's all too easy to forget that they are bred to work and need so much more than long walks (which will just make them super fit).

The only working breeds I know with "issues" are those who aren't allowed to fulfil their natural instincts and who are expected to live a pet lifestyle when they're just not designed for that.

I’m sorry that’s scary for you all. .

Those two situations will be linked. His stress levels would be through the roof after the first incident which led to the second.

I personally don’t think this is a dangerous dog. I would say extreme care needs to be taken around your child.

If he were mine I’d be seeking behavioural help. He’s not a pts case yet. I’d also be speaking to the rescue. Don’t let strangers touch your dog. Ever. My last one was fear aggressive with strangers. I just smiled and told people thank you but she’s not used to strangers and moved on.

I totally agree with all of what you are saying except for the bit about me being irresponsible about trying to diagnose the dog. I didn’t do that.
No matter what the reason ( and I do believe Cocker rage is real- the change in their eyes/face is scary to see) the OP has a dog that is so reactive/scared/triggered/whatever that is it potentially unsafe to keep in a home with a toddler.

Which would not be unreasonable if it wasn't for the fact that your parents may have him instead but you don't want to do that because it would "make you sad".
Of course it may cause issues if you visit with your child but if there is an option of a good home that is safe for everyone why would you PTS?

The whole in laws thing I thought it would potentially be worse for him to leave us full time then come back for a visit and it would make me sad if it made his life worse!

If it's not going to be cruel to him then maybe that's an avenue to explore!

He's never gone for our little girl at all and we keep them apart and what we think is correct as dog owners!