Ditch the bowl - fussy eater

[thistlewhistlewheest]

Hi, we've just adopted a 4yo girl, mixed breed, medium sized, came over from Romania as a puppy.

We absolutely love her already but she needs a little of training as she's very reactive.

I been researching different training techniques and love the "absolute dogs" training which focus on games. But "ditch the bowl" appears to be fundamental, which we are struggling with.

She is used to eating kibble mixed with wet food as a main meal twice a day. She won't touch the kibble without the wet food mixed in and completely ignores it if used for training.

She does seem quite food motivated but goes off any type of treat if over used. Cheese is the only thing that consistently works, but I can't ditch the bowl and just feed her cheese!

I'd love to find a complete dog food kibble that she will actually take as a reward when training (mixed in with higher value stuff like cheese)

Has anyone else had this issue with "ditch the bowl". And can anyone recommend a complete dry dog food that is really enticing?

I’m not familiar with ‘ditch the bowl’ but using kibble as a reward in training seems counterintuitive. What’s the reasoning behind it?

Don’t ditch the bowl. Eating is a fundamental need. Your dog needs to know you will give her everything she needs. By all means use some of her allowance for sone training and enrichment (that’s what I do) but effectively witholding food is really really stressful for most dogs.

what is the reasoning behind “Ditch the Bowl?”

Food value is raised by having the dog work for it which is the case for some dogs but not all. But anyone trying to train a hungry terrier will realise they don’t learn well if they are starving. Plus you have very little skin left on your fingers at the end of the session! Making dogs work for every morsel can set you up for frustration and food guarding.

I like a middle ground of some food given freely and some worked for in meals. I have taught agility for many years and always advise a half meal a good few hours before a session. Eg my little terrier has her breakfast in a bowl as she’s really hungry and her tea is either a licki bowl or Toppl which is a very easy puzzle toy.

I use kibble at breakfast either in a snuffle mat, or hidden around the house or garden for him to sniff out, or will scatter feed - never as a reward in training. Rewards should be high value so they know they’re doing something well and/or to build positive connections. Food and water are essentials that (imo) shouldn’t have to be worked for - if a dog is hungry it’s not going to be focused on the action you’re trying to achieve and will start to see food as something to be guarded.

I did the “sexier than a squirrel” course with AD, and “ditch the bowl” has worked for me, with tweaks.

I use a semi-moist kibble for rewards that I buy online from Zooplus (wolf of wilderness adult soft mini “silvery lakes”) because it’s small, allowing for more rewards without overfeeding, but also proper dog food. I mix that with the usual hotdogs and cheese, but not much of those (she never knows if she’ll hit the jackpot!).

However, I do give my dog some food in her bowl in the morning and evening so that she gets to eat in peace as well as eating during training. Basically, she gets about half her food in her bowl, and the other half training (proportions vary according to the day).

If your dog is loosing interest in her rewards, I wonder if the reason is because your individual training sessions are too long? My dog will lose interest when she’s mentally tired (or bored), and will regain it after a short rest; it’s not the treat, it’s just she can’t process any more. I don’t train her for more than one or two minutes, maximum, at a time, and often it’s less. But several sessions throughout the day, each time concentrating on one skill only.

Thanks everyone,

The "ditch the bowl" techniques are a to be used for many online training courses these days, overall you give your dog the same food over the day but they get it through play and interacting with you. It seemed to make sense to me, but obviously only if your dog actually likes kibble!

@Rubia3 thanks for the food recommendations, above all else if like you find a dryish food that she will actually be tempted by so I'll give that one ago.

Could you just cut back the amount of kibble and use the freed up calories for treats she will work for?I have a 3 year old Rommie rescue adopted in the U.K. and this is what we do with him.

He similarly would not work for kibble. He won't take anything crunchy whilst out and about. He only works for sausage, chicken or cheese. I have accepted this and I just scaled back the amount of kibble he gets so I can factor in a calorie allowance for training and enrichment. I weigh it out and put jt in the treat pouch in the morning to last the day.

My MIL carps on about us 'feeding that dog all the time' but he just gets less in his bowl to compensate. His weight is stable and I keep a check on his body condition and rein things back if he seems to be putting on weight.

I think this will be where we end up, I'm still hoping I'll find a kibble that really speaks to her.

Some dogs are just not very food motivated (I have one).

You can do two things.

Firstly, build value in treats by making the whole process of giving the dog a treat a little more exciting (wave your hand about with some happy chatter as you bring the treat closer, or throw the treat into grass so the dog gets a little chase-and-hunt) or coupling treat delivery with praise and fuss. That way the dog comes to associate the treat with a little dopamine hit of happiness.

The other is to use play as a reward. Get the dog sit with, say, a tennis ball as a lure, and as soon arse hits grass, chuck the ball. Some people use tug toys in the same sort of way: as soon as the dog goes to heel or lies down or whatever, out comes the tug for a quick tussle (though the first thing you have to teach the dog is to let the tug go when you tell it).

As an aside, I wouldn't touch Absolute Dogs with a bargepole. The woman who is a director was involved in an over-breeding/ puppy farming scandal a few years ago.

Ditch the bowl is a great idea in principle but it definitely doesn't work for all dogs.

Mine is normally hugely food motivated but won't always take kibble while out and about as it's just not high value enough for him to be a reward in that kind of environment.

Yes, he would take things like hot dogs or cheese, but eating too much of those kinds of foods isn't good for dogs, so just using those while out and about isn't really a solution either, even if I did cut back his meals.

I personally don't agree with the idea that dogs should work for all their food - food should be something that's guaranteed no matter what, not something that should be made into a really high value resource - again, that may work for some dogs but it could also lead to resource guarding and other issues.

I guess, as PP has said, the "ideal" is that they get half in their bowls and half as a reward but again, that only works if your dog is happy to work for dry kibble - many just aren't!

IME very few dogs will take just their normal food as a reward outside the house - only really really foody dogs will

I also have an ex Romanian rescue and tbh, it’s hard enough to get him to eat enough dog food to keep weight on him, never mind him doing any work for it.

He’s on the large side of medium so indide
the house I use a bit of his meals for stuff and outside or for anything he’s likely to be stressed enough to refuse food for inside I just give him what he’ll take and don’t really worry about it… it’s still a fairly low percentage of what he’s eating daily so I can’t imagine it’d ever cause an issue nutritionally and he’s if anything slightly leaner than I’d like, so I just don’t worry about it.

Works for us but it is delicious kibble - I've tried it!

Yes, we do mix in cheese and dog pate and chicken quite a lot but just kibble works fine when we are out and about.

Orijen