How do you know when it's time?

[doggylife]

My dog is 13 years old. He's a cocker spaniel.
He's always been anxious and has separation anxiety.

He has arthritis in all 4 legs so he has an anti inflammatory injection every 6 weeks for this.

There have been a few occasions where his legs have given way. And twice where I've come downstairs to him in the morning and he can't move. His legs couldn't stand up at all. So I've carried him to the car and gone to the vets and when he's had the anti inflammatory injection, he can walk again 2 minutes later.

He can run about a lot. When we go for a walk, he runs everywhere and people honestly still mistake him for a puppy all the time!

He barks a lot. Whenever he's awake he's usually barking. I've taken him to the vets several times about this. He has some medication that's supposed to help him relax. But he barks through the night. Sometimes is continuously through the night and other times he miraculously sleeps through the night but that's just about once or twice a week he does that.

The vet thinks he might have dementia as he meets a lot of the criteria. He was weeing in the house but we moved house 4 weeks ago and he hasn't done this since. He'd never wee'd in the house before either. So for the first 12 years of his live he NEVER did this and then one day just started doing it several times per week. Even after he'd been for a walk, he'd come in and just wee. But as I say, he hasn't for the last 4 weeks.

The barking through the night, he's done for around a year.

Some people have said it might be time for him to be put to sleep. But he's still so active. I don't know what to do. I've never been in this position before.

Several people have told me

We did sadly. He went in for routine checks with his arthritis medication, and it came back as stage 2 kidney failure. About a week later he collapsed on a walk, so took him back to the vets and he perked up a little after a check up. About a week after that he started wetting in the night and the grass started to die, so things were progressing quicker than we hoped. We also had a tar stool which is an indication of internal bleeding so I have no doubt he was in pain. Again back to the vets to check it out. He sometimes wanted a walk, other times didn't, slept a lot in the last month. On our monthly check his blood test showed he was in stage 4, so the vet told us to enjoy the rest of our time together as we didn't have long left.

i don’t think it’s a money making thing (at least I hope the majority of vets don’t think that way) more that they can’t make that decision for you. My vets saw him for 10 minutes at a time, they didn’t live with him. They didn’t know him. As owners we know our time is limited and only we know what is best for our family/dog.

For me the pacing and crying and not being able to settle (when he's already on pain relief) would mean it was time. However, I'm typing this next to a 12 1/2 year old big dog and am already dreading the day I have to make the decision myself.

@livingthegoodlife2 sounds like you did the absolute best for your boy. He was lucky to have such a caring family.

We have taken her to the vets multiple times since April, they did a blood test then and said her ACL was high, made another appointment and then was told it's high but not worryingly but then said needs a liver scan so but did a liver scan, that came back clear and they said all was fine.
We questioned at the time do they not need to do anything else and they said no.

She went back in a few weeks ago for the anal gland issue and I mentioned she seemed to have lost quite a bit of weight (2kg since June), vet said make another appointment in a week to check anal gland was healing and investigate the weight loss.

Took her back last week and he said gland is healing but make another appointment for this week. I asked him about the weight loss (she had lost another 0.5kg in a week!) and he said they will do a blood test, got that done and he called me the following day to say it's the same as it was in April and now they want to do a urine test.

Just feels like all these appointments and getting no answers so to us feels like they are trying to make as much money as possible. I hope that isn't the case but you know when you just get a bad feeling about something.

The other issue is she is technically my husband's dog (although i have been in her life 11 years) as he had her before we met. He absolutely will not entertain the idea of having her PTS. I have tried to have the conversation so many times and he just won't talk about it.

Sorry this has turned into a bit of an essay but feel better for writing it all down!

Would it be worth taken her to a different vet for a second opinion? It's strange that with all them tests nothing has been diagnosed isn't it.

I couldn’t bring myself to start a new thread on this as I don’t think I could handle the responsibility of coming back to update…

I’m sleeping downstairs with my 14 year old girl this evening, knowing it’s likely her last night on this earth.

She’s been slowing down for the past 6 months but since last night she’s been unable to stand for longer than a minute and has been asleep for all the day. She last ate last night (she never liked food in the morning). She’s listless and has lost all interest in the world. It’s been so fast.

My heart is veering between absolute refusal to acknowledge and utter utter utter heartbreak. She’s the best best girl and I can’t comprehend a world without her.

We've been living in our new house 3 weeks. He still paces and barks a lot. Next door have also been taking him for walks. I really don't know what to do. He seems happy when going on a walk.
He won't stop eating. I think he doesn't realise when he's had his food. So he'll eat it all and then throw his bowl around because he wants more.

OP, gently, I’m not sure what you want from this thread. Two months ago you asked for advice and it was given and you haven’t seemed to have listened - which is your prerogative - but you’re back posting the same information.

Your dog sounds utterly miserable, depressed and like he’s suffering. Just because he can eat and walk does not mean he is happy. You clearly know this (hence the posting) but unless you take him to the vets for more opinions or treatments or to say goodbye, nothing will change?

I’m not trying to be harsh - but I’m really not clear what you want from posters. I’m really sorry about your dog, but you know he’s not happy so it’s down to you to make the choice now.

OP you have my sympathy. I'm posting because had all the same questions so seems sensible to join your thread rather than start my own. Our lovely cocker girl will be 13 in Jan, she is a little stiff with arthritis but gets around great with mild-dose daily pain relief. She's been blind for the past 4 years, a genetic eye condition, but she knows the house well and gets around fine following her nose, still enjoys her little sniffy walks twice a day and still has her head in my lap every mealtime waiting for some treats...

But now she has a lump on her lip on one side which the vets are pretty sure is cancer. They won't operate at her age, said a GA is far too much risk. They prescribed anti-inflammatories and antibiotics but they didn't shrink it at all, in fact it's growing. She doesn't seem to find it sore but it can't be comfortable. She's being adorable and greets the houseguests with the waggiest tail like always. She's so gentle and calm with the kids and I am beside myself to know how to break it to them - especially coming up to christmas!

We have her booked in for a quality of life check next Weds and I've got a feeling that we might let her go that day, if the vets advise it.

I don't know if I should pay extra for the home visit, to bring her home and do it here where she can relax and be comfortable, rather than in the consulting room? She doesn't love it there, is always keen to come home. And we planned to bury her at home because we do have space, but I've no idea about what that really entails logistically - has anyone done that and knows how feasible it is? I am also wondering whether the kids can say goodbye after she's gone? They are 7 and 3 years old - the little one especially is her shadow and adores her! I don't want to traumatise them but I do want to help them understand, not do some weird "she's gone to live on a farm" lie. If anyone can advise I'd be really grateful. Just feel so sad and also really responsible for everyone else's sadness, and it's overwhelming!

We knew the day was coming, and got a book called “over the rainbow bridge”. You will be surprised how resilient kids are with basic facts. We also got a little dog statue which my 4 year old now and again still pats on the head.

personally I don’t think it’s a good idea for kids to say goodbye after she’s gone. She may have her eyes slightly open or a tongue sticking out and won’t look like she’s asleep. I can imagine it being confusing for a kid.

our vets gave us options for cremation, I opted for a scatter tube as initially I wanted my pooch to be scattered on our favourite walk. I’ve now opted to bury him in the back garden with a nice plant, though currently he’s still in the scatter tube in the house as I still haven’t decided and want him close.

Haven’t read the full thread but we had our beautiful girl put to sleep just over a year ago. She’d lost a ton of weight despite still eating. She wasn’t going out on walks anymore, just using the garden. She was basically blind. This was all so gradual that we dealt with it as it happened. There had been increasing trips to the vet and more and more meds which ruined her stomach, which required more meds.

Eventually we said ‘enough’ because the meds weren’t improving the quality of life and she found the vet trips really stressful. We decided to withdraw all meds and she really perked up. A week or so later she developed some urinary tract issues and became incontinent. So we phoned to make an appointment for a few days later.

I really worried it was too soon but in retrospect I wish we’d been brave enough to make the decision sooner. She was in pain and because she was a very quiet girl, barked once in a blue moon, it wasn’t at all clear. I do feel like we let her down.

Her last walk was a beautiful breezy day with bright sunshine and blue skies. I have photos of her standing with her eyes closed enjoying the warmth.

Hold your dog close and make the decision from a place of love. It’s hard but they need you to make the best decision for them. Xx

@ThisTimeNextWeekDavid im sorry xx

Thank you @NigelAdjacent

It was unbelievably hard. I sobbed for 3 days and still cry now. I keep seeing her everywhere and miss her so so much.

It was the right decision - she looked utterly miserable for her last 24hrs - but it doesn’t lessen the pain, does it?

I always say that you'll know when it's time. And you will. Trust yourself.

It's rarely too early but it can easily be too late
I made the decision for my cat because he wasn't going to improve and I didn't want his life to be worse than it was

Also didn't want him to be in pain and an emergency run to the vet in a panic at 3am
He was eating, fairly lively, no arthritis etc
But I look back on photos now and it was right, I can see it

It sounds like it's time, don't wait until he can't get up or you're having to carry him into the car at 3am

Should have said I know it's absolutely heartbreaking, the first time I had to make the decision was when I was 18 for my horse and again all I can say is I didn't make the decision too late then either

Even through the utter grief, it comforted me that I hadn't let him suffer

What injection is he on at the vets OP? Is it Librela?

For anyone who doesn't know, Librela is peddled as the miracle cure to athritis in dogs as a monthly injection, with vets insist there are 'no side effects' as it is a pain blocking agent rather than a medication.

Unfortunately it frequents kills dogs, causes loss of bladder and bowel control, seizure, kidney failure, neurological issues, the list of reported side effects is absolutely enormous, some peoples dogs have died within hours of taking the first dose, some get worse as it builds up in their system, some also do fine on it, but the vets do not tell you any of this, for £90+ a month they just keep dosing it out.

If your dog started his barking in the night, incontinence and pacing/whining around the time of starting Librela OP then I would be looking at that as a possibility.

You've posted three times in this thread, each post putting slightly more pressure on the OP which is a bit strange and uncalled for. She's using the thread as a sounding board and to write out what changes she's seeing in the dog and to read responses, not get a definitive yes or no on euthanasia. Posts with a tone like yours could push the OP to do something she regrets and it needs to be her choice, as she is the one living with the dog.

Op - I've had a few dogs in my life that sound like yours in the end - I don't euthanise personally until they stop eating or walking unaided. I've seen dogs where owners have waited too long and those dogs to me have been when their legs have gone and they soil themselves, not dementia behaviour like whining and pacing. I personally disagree with euthanising an old dog who still eats, a dog in pain doesn't eat or want to continue imo but if they're eating and enjoying their walks they're obviously happy in themselves, just not all there in the head much like my lovely 95yo grandfather - I wouldn't want him euthanised for getting funny in his old age but ultimately it's down to you with the advice from your vet who can tell where his pain is at, and whether you can deal with his behaviour.

@sandyhappypeople
Yes he was on Líbrela. I think he'd been on it around 18 months. And yes, his issues did start after taking it, I think. Barking in the night, being incontinent. I really wish I'd seen this sooner.

I wanted to post an update.

A couple of weeks ago, my dog was walking like an old man through the day. Really slow. That evening, he was struggling to get up. He couldn't walk. The following morning I took him to the vets.

She prescribed medication for 2 weeks but said he would need to be put to sleep within a couple of weeks.

I had told her all of the symptoms (this was a different vet this time). She said she was concerned for his quality of life.

She said she was prescribing this anti inflammatory for 2 weeks so that he could walk a little better and to give us a little time together.

On 23rd he was put to sleep.
I arranged for the vet to come to the house so he could be on his bed infront of the fire. Because he's terrified of the vets. It was peaceful. He'd had some good days prior to this where he could walk ok. And I keep worrying I did it too soon.

The guilt I feel for various reasons is enormous. I can't stop crying. I feel horrendous.

I feel guilty because I had to move house several times recently and I'm worried that was distressing for him.

I moved out of my house, and went to live with family, who hate dogs. They wouldn't let him on the settee and he barked a lot. They eventually asked us to leave because they didn't want the dog there.

I then rented somewhere but he barked so much, we were asked to leave after 5 weeks.

We could then, finally move into the house I'd bought that had gone through probate so took a while.. so we moved in. He was still barking a lot.

I had nothing in the house except a mattress and a settee id borrowed. (I won't go into detail of why).

Anyway, I was so afraid of him ruining the settee I'd borrowed that I bought him dog beds for the floor. Which he lay on and was fine. But I feel an enormous amount of guilt that I didn't let him on the settee in those last weeks.

Where we were finally free, safe, able to be together and relax. But I was so afraid of the settee being ruined I didn't let him. And I used to love lying with him on the settee. We would bond just cuddling on the sofa.

I keep thinking "why didn't you just let him on the settee" and I'm so afraid he thought I didn't love him.

I'm also thinking back over the last few months of moving again and again and how I don't think I hugged him as much as I used to. I was so stressed with moving so much, trying to avoid being thrown out, having my child there too. I just don't think I hugged him as much as I used to and the guilt is killing me.

He would bark so much I would be telling him off. And I really regret this now. I feel so sad thinking about it. I haven't been able to sleep at all.

This boy has been my best friend. I've loved him more than I ever thought would be possible. I'd hate to think he ever thought for a second that I didn't love him.

I'm worried I had him put to sleep too soon and Christmas has been so sad without him. I've missed him tremendously. He would go with me everywhere. Work, home, everywhere. And now I feel like a part of me is missing.

I haven't been able to sleep in my house since because my grief feels so painful when I'm at home.

And to add.. when his legs suddenly stopped. He couldn't get up the stairs so I stayed with him downstairs for 3 nights.

But then when he was given this medication, and it kicked in after a few days, he could walk a little bit better. I would need to help him up and down the stairs. But on his last day, he was walking quite well. He went toddling off up the road actually which also makes me worry it was too soon.

@ThisTimeNextWeekDavid

I'm so sorry to hear this,
I just wanted to see how you're getting on?