What to look for/ask breeder?

[TheWorstWeek]

We're looking to get a puppy around mid-November so we'll be actively looking soon. We have been waiting for a couple of big engagements to pass so that we can properly dedicate time to a puppy and that should be sometime in November. I'm very excited but have never had a puppy before so...

Obviously I have been doing lots of research already and will continue to do so but what are the most important things you think I should look for/ask a breeder?

It really depends what you want from the dog. I would start there. Do you want a family pet?

Search for Will Atherton on youtube and look at his videos about choosing a puppy x

I have already done a lot of research on the breed that we want (a cocker spaniel) but as I've never had a proper puppy myself, albeit several in my family, I'm just wondering what I need to be checking with a breeder.

I had a rescue King Charles Spaniel as a child and for 12 years my husband and I (then our 2 DC) had a beautiful JRT who we sadly lost earlier in the year.

Puppies from a reputable breeder that will be ready in mid November will likely be reserved very quickly, so you’ll need to start looking now.

You will want to see them at the breeder’s home, with the mum and preferably, the dad if that’s possible (our breeder arranged for the sure to be there on our first visit).

How many litters has the mum had?

Have the puppies been checked for inherited conditions, or will they be? Find out what’s relevant for the breed.

Will they be vet checked, vaccinated, wormed and chipped?

Ask about their registration and that of the parents (and grandparents).

Ask about ‘inbreeding co-efficient’ for the pups.

Do they come with short-term insurance?

Our puppy came from the most lovely breeder who is clearly a dog lover. As soon as we reserved ours, she would send me photos and videos every few days. And she often checks in on us. It was so reassuring to know he came from a loving family home. He’s been an absolute delight from the moment he got here with no issues at all. I’m sure his lovely start helped.

Thanks @AllAboutNiamh . These were exactly the kind of questions that I was looking for!

Be prepared to have to wait. We have a 4mo cocker spaniel puppy and had researched the breeder way in advance. His litters are usually spoken for before mating has even taken place. We were lucky as we contacted him to be put on the waiting list for next year and someone had pulled out of taking one from the litter he'd just had due to ill health, so we didn't have to wait long in the end. He vetted the hell out of us before saying yes though!

It is also worth looking at champ dogs and the KC as our pup came from a breeder who doesn’t advertise but had two pups available as some on her waiting list had gone elsewhere.

Ask for the KC name as then you can check health tests and breeding coefficient on the website. That needs to be taken in context though. For my dogs breed the only breeders who health test are the line breeders so the COI is slightly higher than the chuck two dogs together because it would be nice breeders.

Are you absolutely set on November? Toilet training is much easier in the spring/summer

@YorkshireFelix I won't mind being thoroughly vetted! That should be the case IMO. I do feel very ready for an energetic pup again after our last dog was a lazybones as she got old! And I don't mind waiting either. Mid-November isn't necessary when we want a puppy. It's more that from that point on we are ready for having on come home as all our big, prior engagements are over by then.

@Newpeep thanks for this. I've registered with Champdogs now so that I'll be notified of new litters.

@DataPup not set on November but it is also a good time for us as a family to be getting a dog for several reasons. Plus I've really missed having a furry companion since losing our JRT earlier this year so I'm very ready for one.

@TheWorstWeek if you're on Facebook, join 'Working cocker spaniels (UK)' group as I've found it really helpful. You'll find a lot of recommendations for good breeders if you post which area you are in

If you are near West Yorkshire I can hugely recommend the breeder we got our pup from!

I had an eight month wait on the breeder's list, so I would start now. Another vote for Champdogs.

Both my pedigree dogs came from top breeders neither owned the dad this is very normal but both showed me the fathers pedigree detailed his show ring successes and his breed relevant health results explained why they’d chosen this particular dog one had used him before and showed my photos of previous puppies and their show ring results and gave me the contact details of the breeder who owned him so that I could contact them and arrange a visit if I wanted too. I didn’t bother because I was not buying a show dog. Years ago I bought a horse to show and seriously compete on in that case I did visit the sire and look at his offspring and their success in my chosen field. So I think it depends what you want to do with this puppy if you’re entering field trials then the competition results if the site might be relevant.

I don’t know anything about Champdgs I’ve always gone through the breed club, they will know what tests the parents should have and their members are likely to be breed dedicated knowledgeable breeders rather than someone who fancies having some puppies from their bitch.

I cross reference breeders on Champ Dogs and the Kennel Club.

You should speak to several breeders before you pick one, and then I always ask the following questions on the phone when I talk to them:

How many bitches do they have and how many litters will each bitch have (more than two litters per bitch is, IMO, a big red flag and more than one a year from multiple dogs is a huge red flag because it is SO exhausting to breed a dog that no one has the energy to do it properly more than once a year. And, of course, if they have multiple breeding bitches then chances are they aren't looking after the puppies or the bitches properly. A good breeder will sleep with the pups for all eight weeks AND be there constantly during the day, cleaning up and socialising them. It's a 24/7 job - no one can reasonably do that more than once a year unless they are superwoman/man

How old is the bitch (KC say one year old, I think two - minimum - before they can be bred).

Why did they choose the sire they did (don't be surprised if you can't see the sire. Most breeders don't own the sire these days). Is it because of good hip/eye scores etc? Is it because of his appearance? The COI?

What are mum AND dad's scores for the key health tests (you can see the recommended ones on the KC and Champ Dogs)

What is the inbreeding coefficient of both parents (KC website will tell you breed average. But don't be wedded to this. My Golden is 10% inbred, which is higher than average, but his hip and elbow scores are incredible. BUT too high and it does mean they are potentially breeding two dogs that share a grandparent, which is unacceptable when it is a very popular breed.

How long have they been breeding? (Not a top priority, but the length of time is very telling. Anyone who has only been breeding for a few years is likely trying to capitalise on post-COVID puppy booming IMO).

Then you'll need to decide which breeder you think ticks the most boxes for you and you feel comfortable buying from.

When you go to view a litter:

Ask to see evidence of the health tests (a good breeder will proactive show you)
Ask to see all the puppies (if they say no, then run. Just because some are sold, it does not matter. You should be able to see all puppies interacting with their littermates).

How are they socialising the puppies (hoover, people, children, different types of surface such as grass, concrete etc)

Will there be a contract of sale? (There should be one)

Can you see the family tree (this isn't hugely important, but its good to be sure the breeder has been careful to avoid breeding from similar lines)

Will puppies be wormed and vaccinated

Will the puppy be microchipped

Can you meet the puppy several times

Will you pick the puppy or will you be matched

If you do view a litter and something doesn't feel right...don't be afraid to walk away. I have done. Many times. It's no bad thing. You have to be SURE you are buying a dog from a good home and that it's been loved and cared for. KC does not necessarily mean it's a healthy or well tempered dog (look at what they've done to French Bulldogs and GSDs).

Edit: I should say, for my most recent dog. I had to visit twice (including with both my children), do video tour of my home, show proof of ownership of my house, explain my experience with the breed, and she wanted to see our finances (nothing to invasive - just proof we could actually afford a puppy) before the breeder would confirm she'd sell me a puppy. So do not be surprised if you are thoroughly vetted. A good breeder should want to meet you several times (and IMO do a video tour) before they sell you a dog.

Even with champdogs you still have to do your due diligence, plenty of litters on there where only one parent is health tested or where they only have some of the recommended tests.

Honestly a cocker spaniel puppy as your first dog would be A LOT of extremely hard work. They are a demanding & intelligent breed. My friend is a dog walker and all round dog enthusiast and still struggled so much when she adopted her cocker spaniel recently and he was 18 months! He needed 2 hours vigorous exercise every single day and even then still chewed everything. It was HARD and she was experienced. I mean the dog is find now but it took a lot of perseverance and he's still high energy.

With a puppy it will be even harder than the above. I'm not trying to scare you off but just please think long and hard. Pets for homes and the like is teaming with people looking to rehome their cocker spaniels as they just had no idea what they were letting themselves in for and it's sad.

Fine not find

@bakewellbride This puppy would not be my first dog but rather my first PUPPY that I fully own myself. My husband and I had a dog (rescue) for a number of years up until recently, I had a spaniel (rescue) in my childhood and across our family there are 6 other dogs, all got as puppies. I'm not a stranger to dogs at all.

I have done a considerable amount of research into breeds and know that cocker spaniels are high energy, intelligent and needy a lot of mental stimulation. This is all something that I am able and willing to provide for the dog.

I appreciate your honesty about the breed and the work involved but this is something I'm already aware of.

@Killingoffmyflowersonebyone another set of fabulous questions. Thank you so much. This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

I really appreciate all the advice from everyone. Obviously I want to take finding our new family member very seriously and make sure I'm doing it correctly!

Champ Dogs had at least one litter available at the end of November

Can anyone tell me how important it is to have the pup be KC registered? I think I have an understanding of what it means/why it's desirable but if someone who actually knows could actually explain it to me then I'd be grateful.

KC registration enables confirmation of lineage. Without it, you have no proof the puppy is the result of particular breeding (and therefore health tested parents, grandparents, COI, etc)

This. Without it you’ve got no idea your dog isn’t the result of a direct mating.

I say that as the owner of rescue cross breeds so no snobbery. If you buy a breed you need to know its lineage. For example mine is from more working lines and her ancestors have done well working. So she is going to be more of a handful and need more input.

Lots of good advice on this thread

I would look for COI 5% or less; a high COI is likely to predispose to more immune problems or to rare genetic issues for which no tests exist, but also gives more predictability about how the puppy is likely to turn out. You need to weigh up the pros and cons and decide what you are most concerned about. Personally I go with health. The KC has it faults but lets you check COI and also will only register a certain number of litters per bitch.

Has at least one parent been tested for any recessive genetic illnesses to which the breed is prone? Have both been hip scored?

If you're going for a working cocker, make it clear to the breeder that you want the dog as a pet. That can make wonderful pets in the right home but be nightmares in the wrong one. Even if you don't plan to work the dog, find yourself a gundog trainer and learn how to fulfil the dog's inbuilt drives. Cockers are usually very eager to please and a lot of fun, but can be desperately needy: they need to learn how to switch off.

Good luck with your search and with your puppy.

So KC registration is the only way to really have all the health information? That's good to know, thank you. I was already only looking at KC puppy/breeders but just looking for clarification on it.