Two intact male Whippets…

[Livelovebehappy]

Just looking for advice on here. We have a male 3 year old intact male whippet. We have, four days ago, taken on a 5 year old intact male whippet. Happened due to friends of friends who were emigrating and were desperately trying to find a home for their Whippet. So it happened pretty quickly with just a couple of walks prior to bringing him here (they had something in place which fell through three weeks before they left the country). Struggling a bit at the moment with getting them to be ‘friendly’ at home. Both trying to establish themselves as top dog, with warning growls, and our three year old not wanting to even be in the same room as the newbie. Will it get better? Are they going to co-habit peacefully? It’s quite draining having to watch them both closely all the time to stop any potential kick offs. But I can persevere if I know there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Must admit,with them both being whippets, which are a very relaxed laid back breed, I didn’t anticipate any major problems, only thinking it would be great company for our original Whippet. They do get on when on walks, running and playing, just big problems in the home. My three year old has our bedroom upstairs at the moment as his safe spaces to get out of the way, but obviously I want them to be good friends, and good company for each other. Will neutering them help? And is there anything else I could be doing?

It's a territorial thing and really not unusual. IME you have two options:

Number 1: Keep them separate (including using gates in the house) until they gradually get used to each other. Keep walking them together. But, to warn you, this can take months and in some cases it never truly fixes the issue.

Number 2: You let the fight happen and stop trying to intervene because, until it does happen, this will take a long time to settle and you will have to be on your toes. That being said, dog fights are rough - particularly dominance fights and one fight might not necessarily solve the issues. Not an option I would pick.

Neutering will not help. This isn't about them having balls, it's about a new dog being in your existing dogs house - no amount of chopping his balls off will fix that tbh and neutering does not necessarily fix dominance issues. Don't forget, your new dog will be stressed and anxious because he's lost his family and he'll be desperately trying to seek reassurance from you and likely acting out - which will inevitably piss off your existing dog!

It's very rare that dogs welcome other dogs (particularly intact dogs welcoming intact dogs, or bitches welcoming bitches) into their home with no issues. This really isn't unusual so please don't be put off and remember you haven't failed in any way - I've been there, and I felt like a total failure (and like I'd ruined my existing dogs life). It does, very often, get better. It just takes time.

Thank you. That’s really helpful. I was thinking of the neutering due to research online suggesting it calms dogs down, and gets rid of the testosterone, so dominance issues could be resolved that way. It doesn’t help that I feel I was rushed into the decision to take him, without having time to really think about how it would affect our household. But I want to get to a place where they’re at least tolerant of each other, and I’m determined to make it work somehow. Tbh, the newbie, whilst having a lot more confidence than my original whippet, seems to have quietened down today, and not being as confrontational with mine, and it’s my (usually very quiet laid back timid) whippet which has taken himself upstairs sulking and just the odd bark drifting downstairs towards the newbie, who is lying accross my knees having a kip. Like you, I feel guilty to have disrupted his very pampered existence, but honestly thought he would benefit from having a playmate.

I have podencos - so sighthounds - including two males. I have found integrating girls far worse to be honest. Either way take it slow, be patient and they will get there (in my experience anyway). There will likely be growling, and potential disagreements over resources for a few weeks yet. I let a bit of growling go but step in if it looks like it’s going to go further. Your new boy will be stressed, and your existing boy will also be stressed, just in a different way. Patience, support, staying calm and it will work itself out.

Assume they both been used to living as singletons at home so far?
I would make sure there is little resources like toys or food available while together (give meals in separate rooms) to fight over but better if can allow more space so they can safely get used to each others smell & presence for a while and reduce the pressure of interacting indoors, it seems like current dog is doing this by going upstairs. Still do walks together ideally If have 2 people so aren't forced to be so close on lead at first as this can help them bond while both busy minded with exploring smells etc to help calm.

None of my sighthounds have been intact when adopted but the first couple of weeks introducing another is often grumbly from experience and need close monitoring/refereeing/distracting then they seem to settle down sometimes they are more housemates rather than best buddies.n I've had spat with current male & new female as she wasn't having him telling her off and then bullied him a bit to make her point🙄 she was fine with other female who was happy to go with the flow. In time they had mutual respect and were fine together and he was ok with 1 intact (holiday board) + 1N males joining . So really depends a bit on their characters, we had one female foster who tried trying to bully and rule the roost, so she was separated till could be returned to rescue as that was a risk of a major fight with my other girl and neither were the type to back down.

After such a small amount of time, they shouldn't be loose to interact together within your house - they're both in a really vulnerable situation and if when it goes wrong, one of them could get very badly hurt.

As they're both already showing signs of aggression, I would separate them in the home completely for now. It can take months to introduce a new adult dog into a home, and the fact that they're both intact will likely make it even harder (sorry!).

I certainly wouldn't neuter either of them but I do think you need to be realistic about how difficult this could be - and be prepared for the fact that it could never reach a point where they're happy to share a space indoors together. Not all dogs are suited to live with other dogs and that's okay.

Thanks. There has been less growling today, and some following each other around. Which looks cute, but obviously not sure what their agenda is when doing it so I’m keeping a close eye on things. I think I had an unrealistic expectation that they would instantly make a connection with them being the same breed. Bit naive on my part!

Thank you. Yes, both singletons previously. I’ve removed some ot the toys, and feeding them separately. They’ve been great on their walks today, and a lot more relaxed. Having read these replies, I’m understanding more that this is going to be a slow journey, and I just need to stick with it.

Definitel6 seem to have an understanding today re boundaries. My own whippet has claimed upstairs as his domain, and will bark if he hears our new one coming up the stairs. I wfh, so in the house most of the time, but when i need to pop out for a couple of hours, I will ensure the door leading upstairs is closed so they have separate spaces. I think this was a concern too, that it would be difficult to leave the house without taking one or both of them with me, but shutting them into their own areas, I hope, will solve that one. Can I just ask, when you say it’s more difficult to get them to accept each other with being intact, why it wouldn’t improve things if one or both is neutered? When I look online, it’s a bit conflicting. Some sites say it would help, others saying it might not have any effect at all.

I would think don't just neuter one. It has to be both or neither.

My dog is really bad with uncastrated males since he was done. He really hates them and will bark, lunge etc with no provocation at all. Before he was done other dogs were like that with him. I think they have to stay equal surely or you'll have more issues.

I think I would do neither in your shoes. You'd be adding surgery and recovery into an already tough situation and there's no guarantee it would help.

I don't regret neutering my boy at age 2. His humping was really excessive and after he was done he was more food oriented and easier to train plus I no longer worry about him running off after bitches but he is more reactive than he was definitely.

Can I just ask, when you say it’s more difficult to get them to accept each other with being intact, why it wouldn’t improve things if one or both is neutered?

Because neutering is one of those things that can either make a positive difference, no difference or that can (unfortunately) make a negative difference.

Neutering a dog in the hopes that another dog will start to like it more just isn't the way to go. It can also make the neutered dog nervous (testosterone is often known as the "brave" hormone) which in turn can lead to fear-based aggression.

There's also the fact that many neutered males dislike entire ones! So you'd probably have to neuter both (if you're going to neuter at all) but then you're dealing with two dogs recovering from surgery and all the stress involved with it, plus you have no idea how they'd both react.

@Killingoffmyflowersonebyone
Great advice - I've also had an unmitigated disaster bringing a puppy home (different sexes). Older dog HATED puppy. He resource guarded me but I didn't realise it was that bad until I was committed to puppy too. At about 7 months she retaliated to his regular aggression and was much bigger than him. I spent a week in bits, bit thankfully resolved it with a very kind friend who took him for a temporary stay, and has now had him for nearly five years. I still finance everything as morally that was the right thing to do. He costs me a fortune and that wasn't something I could have asked her to take on. He's living his best life and my pup has now grown into a confident adult.
Think very hard before you being another dog home!

@Livelovebehappy PLEASE keep us updated about how you get on. I'm absolutely fascinated with the behaviour aspects of pack behaviour and I spend hours studying it. I sincerely hope it works out for you.

I would think don't just neuter one. It has to be both or neither.

Not true actually. The advice tends to be to neuter the more submissive one, to widen the gap between their status. However, this needs a careful approach, as it isn't always obvious which is dominant/submissive.

Hounds are traditionally very sociable though, so personally I would crack on ensuring they both have their own space (either side of gates, if necessary) and just insist on good manners. From what you are saying, it sounds likely that things will settle.

Interesting I did not know that!
I can see the logic to that.

It does seem to be dogs about his own size that bother my neutered boy most. Smaller dogs he ignores and much larger ones he gives a wide berth to and acts submissive but unneutered dogs about his own size he will try to warn off. Pretty much all females and neutered dogs he loves and is very friendly with.

We have a whippet and a bull lurcher. (The bull lurcher needed rehoming in a hurry so we took him on) they were both 8 months old at the time. It was pretty clear that the dominance issue was only going to be solved with the death of one of them so we got the lurcher neutered pretty early (probably below 12 months). That helped but not fully so we got the whippet neutered and they now live in perfect harmony. They always liked each other but when they kicked off it was nasty. They’re really close now, often to be found snuggled up.

Personally I don’t keep an intact dog so neutering them was always going to happen. Rescues are choc full of bull lurcher and I didn’t want him to go through that. He’s an absolute twat and I couldn’t bear the thought of him bouncing back and forth between rescues. He may be a twat but he’s our twat and we love him.

Thank you all for your helpful advice on here. I had more or less decided to have one or both neutered, but after this thread have decided to hold off and see how things go. I think it was just knee jerk reaction on my part (which I’m often guilty of!) following a bad first day. I’m going to see how it goes. Today has been slightly better. Whippet number one has still kept his distance upstairs, but has occasionally come down. Surprisingly whippet one, whilst younger and quite timid, seems to have the upper hand atm, in that whippet two appears to be doing the backing down. Whippet one just barks if whippet two tries to invade his safe space, and whippet two does actually back off. Although the new one probably is still trying to adapt to his new surroundings. Outside on walks, they’re absolutely fine - run and play together on and off.

This is an old post, but very true and accurate.

{I was looking up 'Whippet' and this post came up}

When we had two dogs together, we were advised to get a dog /bitch combo - It worked very well, with the female {spayed} being undisputed top dog, and the male happy to take second place.

But I have heard of Whippet fights being quite serious - in one instance a male who had been very successful as a sporting dog and stud had to be PTS because he and his much younger son had a fight over a bitch.
[their owner was out at the time]

The old boy was 16 and had to be PTS due to his injuries.

It was very upsetting. {not my dog}

So say fights can simmer and erupt fast and violently as the two parties take their chances to go for each other.

I used to think of Whippets as passive mild mannered little dogs until hearing of these quite serious fights.

Separate houses was the only way forward, or actual rehoming with a friend.

Old age is no guarantee, either...some of the warriors were veterans.
Possibly the terrier feistiness in the Whippet ancestry[?]

This old boy is 16 and lives very happily now as an only dog.

How are they now, @Livelovebehappy ?
Hopefully settled down harmoniously.

Hi. They’re a lot better. Still not best friends, but I think it’s just that they’re completely different personalities. Our adopted one is very alpha and confident, and our original one, who is younger, was the weak one of his litter when we got him, and it’s his nature to be quite timid and cautious. They still like to have their separate spaces. Original whippet has his space upstairs in his bed, and adopted one has the sofa in the lounge. No fights have happened, thankfully, and they just kind of rub along together. We still have to feed them separately, or our adopted one bullies our younger one. When I give them each a treat stick, he will literally go over and take the stick out of the younger ones mouth! Both are lovely in their different ways, and maybe there’s time for them to become close pals, but equally have to accept that they might never be close. When outdoors they run around together, but it’s very clear who the leader of the pack is, as our adopted one will always take the lead and start the run, with our younger one following closely behind! Absolutely beautiful picture btw of your boy! They’re a very handsome breed.

I'm so glad yours are getting on better..
The newer boy sounds a real ''bossyboots'' - if ever you feel he is too much for your original boy, JR Whippet rescue are very good at finding the right home for the right Whippet- they can be funny

Oh the Old Boy in the pic is my Whippet's great great grandad! {He lives with an elderly lady who loves whippets and her extended family have Whippets..

My Whippet is like your Original boy- she is very mild mannered and was the ''Runt'' of the litter, bossed by everyone else in the litter.

I don't think I could have a 'second' Whippet, as she likes her peace and quiet too much {although she loves to meet up with her bossy sisters}

As long as your Original passive Boy has his domain upstairs, he should feel safe.

With treats, it's quite risky, as even with IDENTICAL treats, they will decide a certain one is the ''special'' one, and try to pinch it from the other Whippet!

Here is my Whippet and her sisters...in order of Bossiness... Mine is in the red at the back!