Are we suitable?

[KNein]

Caveat: I am not a dog person.

DH, however, has helpfully told DC that whilst we can't have a cat, he would consider a dog.

We live in a flat, and I could see how we could install a cat bed etc, I can't see how we could house a dog.

DH works from home twice a week and runs in these days, says he would take the dog with him - although I thought they needed to be taken out 3 times a day, not one.
DD says she would take it one afternoon per week, and DS would love to play with it too, he could take it out three afternoons a week.

At the weekend, we often go out hiking, biking, swimming but not every weekend.

I'm assuming only larger dogs are suitable for hiking, but we don't have space! So any large, energetic dog would need to be entertained else it would destroy our flat?

What are the realities of living with a dog in a top floor flat?

Who will be running up and down stairs multiple times a day (and night when a puppy) for toileting?
Also puppies can only go on short walks to start with.

My dog who is 10kgs needs two walks per day.

Lots of small dogs are perfectly capable of hiking and doing incredibly long walks . I personally would not get a dog in a flat purely for the inconvenience of toilet training , toileting in the night , barking and disturbing neighbours being the top 3 issues .

believe it or not a chihuahua can go miles my friend has 4 she loves hiking they always keep up with her no problem. little pocket rockets not rats they are so loving little dogs

Do not get any pet, let alone one that has as big an impact as a dog, unless/until everyone agrees it's a good idea, you have good and suitable plans for how you will look after it (and some ideas for fallback plans) and you can afford it.

One misconception in your post is that only large dogs are suitable for hiking. This is not the case - small dogs can be fine. I have a couple of recent copies of "Trail" magazine (hiking and fell running) and the dogs in the photos are about 50/50 tough little terriers to border collies (do not get a border collie if you live in a flat unless you are, like an acquaintance of mine, retired and essentially take the dog out all day every day - they love walking and exploring!)

The biggest drawback to a dog in a flat is house-training (unless its a ground floor flat with direct access outside, which is not you). Few things strike me as less fun than getting a puppy out, downstairs and outside when its woken you for a wee at 2am (plus cleaning puddles from communal areas if the poor little scrap doesn't make it in time)

Dogs are pack animals and like company. It takes time to train them to settle when left alone, and some are never quite fully happy - separation anxiety is not uncommon. Can you afford doggy daycare?

I love dogs and have had loads (now have cats due to family allergies). For me the issue would be: am I willing to take the dog out for walks, be responsible for food, water, brushing, baths, clean up and vet visits - because my experience is, even if you get it in writing, you can't trust others to keep it up.
In terms of walks, how many they need depends on the breed. You might be better off with a small dog - also, if they can't make it out in time, their accidents are going to be more manageable. Some smaller dogs could cope with hiking but not the really small ones. Honestly, I'd also buy a tin of dog food and make your family sniff it because they're going to have to live with that smell and there's no point finding out it makes them gag after you've got the dog.

am I willing to take the dog out for walks, be responsible for food, water, brushing, baths, clean up and vet visits - because my experience is, even if you get it in writing, you can't trust others to keep it up.
This is one of my biggest worries. I'm pretty sure it's all going to land on me... Im currently a sahm, although looking unsuccessfully for something part time.

How old are children?
Spend some time around dogs, get to know them.
I've had a dog while living in a flat but he was my best friend and i was devoted to him.
First thing every morning we'd be up and out for a walk.
Be aware as well lots of dogs won't shit on their own doorstep- literally- so that first toilet of the day isn't just going down the stairs and out the front door, its usually at least a 10 minute walk. That's the second you wake up, come rain or shine, no matter how ill you are. If you aren't prepared to do that then don't get a dog.
If you are then keep researching and good luck :)

A good rescue centre won't rehome to you with a child, let alone two, and living in a flat. There are also very few dog breeds that are truly suitable for a flat.

IME no good breeder would give you a puppy if you're in a flat - particularly not a big breed capable of significant exercise (retrievers, springers, Hungis etc) - and not with two children (assuming they are young).

So, what does this mean for you? It means you're likely going to get a dodgy breeder who breeds seriously sick and not properly health tested puppies which, either equals a short and painful life or a long life full of expensive vets bills.

Then, you get to the actual puppy ownership:

• Puppies need to be taken out every 15/20 minutes to properly housetrain. How are you going to do this in a flat when you shouldn't be putting the puppy in a public area on the ground until it's properly vaccinated (things like Parvo are serious)? Being brutally honest, your flat will stink of piss and feces for months.
• They bite and mouth and it can be VERY painful - kids do not like this. And it lasts months.
• Puppies are expensive. A proper set up with a crate, toys, food, vaccinations etc is going to set you back £400/500. Then you have the actual cost of purchasing the puppy.
• Puppies cannot be left alone or shoved in a crate or day, so if you get a job, you're looking a dog day care - which can cost hundreds a month (on top of other costs) and dog walkers.
• Puppies must fit into your lifestyle. They cannot fit around them.
• Puppies cannot go on long hikes or runs until they are fully crown. In big breeds, this is 18 months - 2 years. So until then it's lots of little bursts of exercise and often. In a flat that probably means takin the puppy out 4/5 times a day. It also means lots of mental stimulation - who will be doing that?

Gently, this is a disaster waiting to happen. An under-exercised, under stimulated and confined dog (i.e. one locked in a flat without adequate space to roam) is a recipe for aggression.

@Killingoffmyflowersonebyone
I was assuming the children were older as op has mentioned children taking them out. But the age is very very relevant. Depending on how old children are a rescue could potentially be an option, if they research thoroughly and prepare well.
Agree with you though don't think a puppy would be appropriate for their living conditions.
A puppy is like having a new baby.
In fact, having a dog in general is literally like having another family member.

@Wavescrashingonthebeach if the children are older though, the problem then becomes; what happens to the dog when they leave home (uni, their own homes etc). Who walks the dog then?

Either way it's going to be very difficult, I think.

Tbh your description of 'a puppy is like having a new baby' is very accurate! Only instead of it being a few years, it's fourteen years if not more 😃

I think having a dog but no garden would be really hard work tbh. A puppy would be a nightmare.

Small terrier dogs would be a possibility as they are small but up for long walks/runs.

We now live in a house by we got our great dane puppy whilst living in a flat and we lived there for a year with him before moving. We had a strict crate schedule which had him toilet trained in no time at all. I never found toilet trips problematic. We had large cimmunual gardens so walks were on the door step. I really wouldnt think twice about having a dog in a flat again but you need to pick the right breed. Something relatviely low energy indoors.

Dogs are a way of life. You’ve got to really want one to make it work. A flat isn’t a barrier and neither is space but it does make it harder.

I have a young terrier and exercise alone isn’t enough. She needs breed appropriate enrichment and training. She’d be a nightmare in a home with someone who ‘isn’t a dog person’.

My friend has a chihuahua in a flat and he uses a litter tray!

Obviously he goes outside to but fully uses a tray like a cat.

He also can walk for miles and when he gets tired on hikes he gets in a little backpack.

Dogs are a huge tie and it will be you who is tied. It will mostly fall to you. It doesn't sound like your set up is suitable at all. Mine has one walk a day (long) first thing but then we have a big garden so lots of guarding of pesky pigeons, seeing off zombies and lots of vigorous ball playing. Puppy and adolescent dog zoomies are madness - not having a garden would have driven me insane. We've just hard good weather. Wait until it is dark, wet, cold, snow8ng, howling gale. Then ask who is walking the dog in this?
Leaving the dog in a flat especially if it gets separation anxiety, could be very problematic. What about downstairs neighbours - dog galloping about, squeeking toys, etc, may be more bothersome to them. You never get the easy dog you expect. Even puppies grow up to have issues - mine is terrified of all fireworks and bangs which includes bird scarers. This really affects what and where we can take her.

DC are 12 & 14

I’ve owned dogs in flats - rescues definitely do rehome to people living in flats, you just need to have a realistic idea of the work involved. I’d assume breeders would be similar.

Firstly you’re going to have a few weeks where they’re not fully vaccinated and can’t go in the ground where other dogs have been.

It makes housetraining a lot harder and once that’s done you’ve still got a bigger time commitment for walking than with a garden because as well as walks for exercise they need walks every 3-4 hours to toilet.

A run twice a week and a hike at the weekend isn’t a high level of activity for a dog though, any not exaggerated shaped dog would be up to that as an adult - but depending on size and breed you’d be looking at 9-18 months before they’re old enough to.

Going off their ages and your circumstances I'd get a rescue. Already house trained. Get in touch with all your local rescues and see if they can match you with the dog.
Sometimes you don't choose the dog- the dog chooses you!

Please don’t. No dog would choose to live in a house without a garden. Wait until you’ve got a garden.

I had a large bull breed (rescue) in a 1 bedroom flat. We went on multiple walks a day on and off lead.

I know someone who finally gave in to being pestered by her DC and got a dog. Her DC (similar ages to yours when they got the dog) have now grown and flown, so she and her DH are stuck with walking him - which they do, but somewhat grudgingly.

He's a low-energy breed and a very sweet-natured dog, but because no one ever bothered to train him, he can't be off-lead on open ground, can't be out alone in the garden (would dig up the flowerbeds), jumps about all over the furniture, has limited lead manners and is generally a pain in the arse. He has also developed health issues which have resulted in some pricey vet trips. He's likely to live another 5 years or so.

Unless you want a dog, and all that it entails -and I can't imagine my life without them tbh - don't get one.

While you absolutely can have a dog in a flat, it's not a choice I would make - especially if this was a new dog, rather than having to move with an existing dog.

Having a private, secure garden that you can just let the dog out into for a wee when it's hammering it down or you feel like shit, or when it's 3am and they have an upset stomach is an absolute godsend.

I have a friend who has dogs in a house with no garden and every time they need a wee, she has to be properly dressed, get leads and collars on the dogs and walk them over the road to the grassy area so they can pee and poo. It's a lot of extra effort whereas I can just leave the back door open and mine takes himself out.

Dogs in flats will need at least four trips or a day. When ill they need many more trips, including some emergency overnight ones. Not great fun when it's cold and windy and raining.

Not all dogs can - or should - run. Even if they can, they still need a better walk on top of that.

My in-laws don’t have a dog friendly garden and live in a city. I’ve had some funny looks when taking mine out for the loo first thing in pyjamas, wellies and a changing robe in the winter and pjs and crocs in the summer 🤣 Our garden is small but big enough for the loo and a play or low key training.

I'm concerned at the going "hiking, biking, swimming" which to me suggests that the dog would be left alone for long periods while the family goes cycling or swimming and the dog is just there for when they decide to go hiking or running. Dog will likely be unhappy, bored and destructive on the cycling/swimming days. Having a dog is a full time responsibility; you can't pick and choose which days you want to interact with it and just leave it at home the rest of the time.

Some dogs are not going to be suited to running or hiking anyway, it isn't a case of a dog is a dog is a dog... You need to do a lot of research.

If you're 'not a dog person' you would never cope with having a dog in an upstairs flat. You need 100% commitment.

Sorry but I'd say a couple of cats is going to be a much better option.