Is it me....?

[DumbledoresWand]

I have a 3yrbold show type cocker... I've had him for 18mths - he was the puppy a covid breeder couldn't sell...
I've always had Spaniels, Joe is fabulous, though he lacks the bounce and hyper activity of other spaniels I've had - very calm, great on his lead, good in the car, only barks when he's pleased to see someone - human or dog!
He is ruled by food, he put a lot of weight on after castration, but with more exercise and diet food he's getting back to a normal weight.
I live in a small bungalow, with a good sized garden. Joe sleeps on the bed at night, but wakes around 1am wanting food... I've tried ignoring him, putting him in the kitchen to sleep - both for a good few weeks at a time. In the kitchen he just cries the whole night, ignoring him just has him walking round me on the bed nuzzling me and tapping my head with his paw. I thought it was because he was hungry BUT when I go on holiday, and Joe is at the dog boarders - where he also sleeps on the bed - he sleeps through the night til 7am.. every night!!!
I know I snore, and I also get up in the night a couple of times, so maybe I'm actually disturbing him?

Daft question - but how do you react when he wakes you? Do you feed him!?

@OrlandointheWilderness .. I have sometimes caved in and fed him.. he literally pesters for hours, and if I'm at work the next day I do sometimes give in. He doesn't even start to pester in the night at the dog sitters.
I think tough love is the way to go, although in the middle of the night it's sometimes easier just to feed him - he goes straight back to sleep after he's eaten. If I get up in the night for a wee he thinks it's food time, which obviously doesn't help either :(

Ah. I think we may have identified your issue...!
Don't feed him. Ours get firmly told to go and lie down if they start buggering about in the middle of the night, even if we get up for a wee etc! It may take a few night but he'll get the idea.

@OrlandointheWilderness .. I think its a battle of wills - which I seem to be losing!..

You have a spaniel I'm afraid! They are little buggers who need to know who is boss otherwise they will run your life. I work mine, it's a delicate balance because I actually reckon he is more intelligent than I am 😂. I'm in charge in most aspects, but all the shoes and socks are his 😂.

I've never seen one, but can you get one of those timer food bowl things that the door opens at 1am or whatever and he can then get inside the bowl for biscuits?

Or would he destroy it!!??

Mine liked to chance their luck during the night sometimes (not spaniels) - they got/get a firm No, get to Bed, etc, and they are a lot better. Cheeky beggars, lol

@Purplecatshopaholic @DeliciousApples ..tried one of those... it was the most expensive dog toy I ever bought :)... he was chucking it round the kitchen before it even opened after a practice run once he twigged it had food in it.... obviously he thinks I'm a bit of a soft touch, but does exactly as he should at the dog boarders and sleeps perfectly all night!!
He gets a firm telling off, which lasts about 5 mins before he's back tapping my head with his paw... this can go on for a good couple of hours, then I cave in

@OrlandointheWilderness Previous spaniels have always responded well to training, and Joe is good with everything else. I think I am a bit soft with him over the sleep thing as he had such a poor start in life. He was ruled by food before he was castrated, very chunky when I got him, but we've worked hard to lose the extra weight, and keep treats to a minimum.
He slept til about 5am when I first got him but then the waking up time has crept back and back - with me anyway !!

What time is his last meal? We had the world's hungriest show cocker who used to wake me for food in the night, but we started keeping back a bit of his dinner to give him last thing at night, and that (mostly) sorted it.

A low fat high protein bed time snack (think rabbit ear, fish skin, other dead things are available) probably will sort it.

@survivingunderarock
@spiderlight
His meals have been split into 3 smaller ones, one late enough to be 'supper'
Also been using Skippers fish skins to try and give him something extra that's not going to increase his weight, neither have helped :(
Think I'm resigned to some sleepless nights & 'tough love'

Please don't go down the road of getting him a timed feeder to give him food at 1am 🙈 he doesn't need to eat in the middle of the night, he needs to sleep!

If he doesn't settle on your bed can he not sleep in the kitchen? Put him in there with his bed, water, blankets and something that smells of you, leave the radio on for company and earplugs.

I meant to add, don't tell him off either - ignoring him really means ignoring him, because for many dogs, any attention is good attention. He'd rather you be annoyed than do nothing at all.

My ddog put on weight after castration and when we tried to cut back the portions of his regular food he would pester and we gave in so no success but a special diet food (AVA weight management) sorted it because it is low fat, high fibre so he still gets to eat a bigger volume but with low calories(TMI but it also made his poo firmer). It was really simple for him to lose weight on this and he didn't pester incessantly any longer.

@ThePure
@ricecrispiecakes
As mentioned in my previous posts, he is on weight management food recommended by the vet - I know he's not hungry through the night, as he sleeps through when he's at the dog boarders.
Living in a small bungalow, leaving him to cry in the kitchen all night isn't practical, also as mentioned, the timed feeder was only used once - again not practical as he saw it as a toy...
Last night he started pestering at 2.30am, was ignored and carried on pestering until 5am when I desperately needed to have a wee.

I think food may be the issue. Weight management food is a bit of a gimmick. Let me guess - Hills or Royal canin? He would be better with a high protein low fat food. None of my neutered animals have been overweight and all have been fed high protein. Lots of companies out there. Diet food tends to be high in carbs which can make dogs hungry like humans. I’d reassess food first.

If you cave in once, they never forget.

@survivingunderarock
He's on Pure.... looking on the All About Dog Food it has a good protein content, like you say, more than Hills or Royal Canin - I've always thought their food to be over priced for what it is. He had blood tests to check his weight increase wasn't anything sinister.
@AnnaMagnani ... you are so right!! And I think it is going to be a battle of wills

If he sleeps through at the boarders but never does it at home, I would wonder whether there's something different about his routine that's causing his behaviour.

While you do need to ignore him overnight, it could be that he gets more exercise and stimulation at the boarders house, or has a slightly different routine that's taught him that bed = bed. Have you asked the boarder for their evening/bedtime routine and tried following it? Even using certain words or commands can make a big difference.

I walk a Labrador who won't settle after walks unless I say "Night night (dog), sweet dreams" - which sounds batshit but it's what his owners do so it's what he's used to. He used to howl after walks when I dropped him off, but as soon as I started saying "night night" he stopped and has never done it since!

You've got to be a bitch (in the true sense of the word). If you've even seen a pup with their mother she will discipline them in a way that there's absolutely no room for doubt or negotiation - you need the same approach. When he wakes you, tower over him and bark in your fiercest voice "Stop. Fucking. Doing. That." until he backs down and is quiet. Then ignore him. A few nights of that will be enough.

@ricecrispiecakes I meet up with the dog boarder for walks, the only difference is she usually has 2 dogs on the bed, and their are 2 people in the bed.
Having other dogs around may keep him more active during the evening, he has never had any interest in ball play or running about. If he's off lead with other dogs he just trots by my side. He goes to daycare twice a week when I have to go into the office, so has a busy day there, and he's still the same through the night
As you and others have said its more than likely down to routine, and me accepting there will need to be some sleepless nights to get on top of this

@Eyesopenwideawake .. I think I need to harden my heart and be harsh and then ignore!

There's really no need to shout at him or be "fierce" - he knows full well you're not his mother!

For some dogs, any attention is good attention, so you really do need to be firm and just ignore them completely. He may ramp it up and behave even "worse" for a while as well - it's known as extinction behaviour and is very common - but he should get the hint eventually.

@ricecrispiecakes I think in my half asleep half awake state I have been speaking to him, trying to get him to settle, so will try and not say anything. He does walk round my body nudging me at various points like he's checking I'm still alive 🙄