Resource guarding in rescue lab

[Bunionbabe]

I wonder if anyone has any advice about a rescue dog we have seen and met ⁰who has been returned to kennels three times over issues with food guarding? He was placed in rescue first time after owners fed him with two small dogs and he growled at them.
Same thing happened with second owners, small dogs, shared food. Third time he did well with new owners until he was left alone in kitchen with a visiting dachsund. There was a fight and dachshund needed vet treatment. So he was sent back to rescue kennels.
The rescue people has warned the owners about his food anxieties but they forgot.
We are experienced lab owners and would like to give him a chance. Nice dog otherwise. Any advice please.

Dog is a lab so not usually aggressive breed.

While a properly bred Labrador shouldn't be aggressive, this one clearly wasn't so I wouldn't be too quick to assume anything in this case.

He was (at best) from an inexperienced backyard breeder - worst case is that he came from a puppy farm.

It's highly unusual for Labradors to find themselves in rescue to begin with, let alone to see them being returned multiple times due to aggression within the home.

Yes, there could be an issue with the rescue vetting the homes but equally I wonder whether they've not been entirely honest about his behaviour - or whether he's so shut down in kennels that his true behaviour just isn't showing until he's in a new home.

Sounds as though he learned he had to fight for
limited food when he was a young pup with lots of dogs in a chaotic house.

If it's literally just that then it's manageable but you would need to always keep up precautions because it sounds as though the 3rd home were lulled into false security and let their guard down.

But I agree it doesn't explain why he needs to be kept away from other dogs at all times. If he is reactive to other dogs on walks then that is going to be a lot more life limiting and would preclude off lead.

I definitely wouldn't let him off lead for a few months at least until you know him. Ours is usually on a long line unless I can see it is a very safe place because his recall is unreliable and he can sometimes be reactive to certain other dogs. Over time we have got used to using the long line and he can still have some freedom but it isn't as nice as having a well behaved off lead dog.

It sounds as though you could manage him and it would be a lovely thing to do but equally his next home has to be his forever one so you should visit a lot and check if you really can commit to him.

You can absolutely do that, but you should never take food away from a dog that resource guards which was what your original post implied

No it didn't. The dog should be taught to sit and wait and only go for the food once it has been given the nod.

But anyway. I'm not up for an argument since Im off to walk the dog.

I hope the OP of the other thread is reading this. THIS is what happens when shitty unworthy owners give up on these beautiful sensitive souls.
Labs are just wonderful. Be patient and loving with your sweet boy. He will learn to trust again.

If you have no young children (even visiting ones) I'd go for it. We have a resource guarding rescue Border Collie (much more common to have issues) and we manage his issues. We have another dog and are just very careful with feeding and any "food" type items. He is very sweet otherwise and gets on great with other dogs when there is no food involved, much friendlier than our other dog tbh.

The only reason I say no young children as you can't be sure a child will react appropriately, we know if we drop anything "food" like then its now his and he will fight us for it, much harder to police with children. And if you will ever need kennels/boarding be aware that its a struggle to find ones that are good with dogs with behaviour problems.

If you do decide to go for it, "Mine" by Jean Donaldson is a great book on resource guarding.

I was a volunteer for our local Labrador Rescue organisation. When people adopted a dog it was for a month initially and if all went smoothly then it could be made permanent. My best friend renewed her probationary month three times before permanently adopting as he had these issues. You need this sort of time to really see what he's like. My friend's dog is now absolutely fine

Lots of great advice and insights here, thanks everyone. We told rescue organisation at weeekend we couldn't go ahead as we weren't confident of being able to manage his problems.
After reading up on resource guarding and seeing input on here I messaged rescue to say we still like the dog but asked for a bit more info on reactivity to other dogs issue. I said we could prob manage the resource guarding part. Just a bit more detail on his background would help.
No response from them, not even an acknowledgement, so am guessing they're fed up with us being awkward. Surely it's not unreasonable to have doubts and expect support when there are so many issues? I've probably screwed up our chance with this dog.

The thing is, if you're already having doubts (to the extent that you told them it was too much) and you haven't even met him, I think the rescue are doing the right thing by not really entertaining you anymore.

The poor thing has already been sent back to them twice - and the more that happens, the more ingrained his issues will become.

I know it's upsetting for you but I think you'd be better off focusing on looking for a dog that you don't have so many doubts about managing.

My local Lab rescue are really transparent about any issues dogs coming in to them may have. The fact this rescue aren’t giving more detail (even to say that reactivity hasn’t been thoroughly investigated yet) would put me off. I know rescues are run by volunteers with other demands on their time, but the fact he has been returned to them so many times might suggest they aren’t disclosing the full extent of the issue he has.

Butterflies... we have met him twice but not in a context that included other dogs. I have had to ask for information at every stage, just the feeling that there is more we should know iyswim.

Ah okay - well, the fact that they're not being very forthcoming with information would be a red flag to me anyway, even if I felt confident that I could handle the dog.

Just an update here. We decided we could cope with the dog's issues after another talk with the rehoming person although we couldn't get any real clarification on why he 'had to be exercised away from other dogs'. Kennel owner said the dog ignored the other inmates, so no problem.
We collected him and for the first two days we stayed at home with him. Things OK, apart from his chasing pidgeons and barking at sounds from neighbouring gardens.
Third day we took him across to local field at 6am. Hard to control on lead. A few minutes in a woman and two dogs appeared on very far side of field, about a quarter of a mile away. Dog went berserk, barking furiously.struggling to get away. We put a second lead on him but we could barely hold him. I got tangled and injured my wrist.
We realised that it is going to be impossible to have a life where there is any possibility of just seeing another dog. We don't know how to cope with that level of reactivity. All very upsetting and feel terrible that we have to let him down.

I’m sorry @Bunionbabe . I don’t think you have been given the full story re reactivity by the rescue and they’ve let you down.
It may be possible to manage this dog’s behaviour but it’s going to be long, hard work and involve lots of specialist help. You did your best, try not to feel bad.

Rescues are shit. They either lie about dogs issues or minimise it. I always want to scream when people recommend getting a rescue dog instead of a puppy.

That being said, if it’s ’exercised away from other dogs’ I’m afraid that does mean a secure dog walking field. Not early morning or late evening walks. It doesn’t need much clarification as, to me, that seems relatively clear? But, you should report them to the relevant authorities for failing to adequately disclose the behavioural issues - minimising behaviour like that is not acceptable. And claiming it’s okay in kennels means sweet fuck all - dogs are very different in kennels/centres to when they’re in a home or out and about!

TBH the resource guarding/reactivity issues means that, being honest, very few people would be capable of giving that dog the help and training it needs. I wouldn’t even take it back to the centre, I would PTS. This has happened too many times - four now - and quite frankly it’s not fair on the dog.

If you plan on keeping it, it needs to be muzzled outside the house. And only exercised in a secure field until you’ve spent time with a behaviourist. Then when you are eventually able to take it outside you’ll have to be doubly cautious because it’s a lab and the average muppet will ignore you if you say it’s not friendly - because people (stupidly) think that retriever breeds never go wrong - and still have it muzzled, and never on anything other than a short lead. It’ll never be able to walk off the lead safely. Dogs with reactivity that bad can be handled, but not fixed.

The problem is that a lot of dogs shut down in kennels, so while this dog may not have been reacting to others, it will be because he's terrified rather than because he has no issue with other dogs.

Kennels are (often) very loud, overcrowded and scary - lots of dogs simply don't cope and don't react to anything as a survival instinct.

I'm sorry you feel like you were lied to but in reality dogs often behave very differently in kennel environments.

@Killingoffmyflowersonebyone what a ridiculous, sweeping statement. Having had more than 35 rescue dogs, from a massive variety of rescue organisations, they have all been as described and none have had issues that cannot be resolved or at least, improved.

Some rescues are not completely honest: they seem to hope that once the dog is in a home, the new owners will love the dog so much that they either put up with its issues or pay £££ to try to resolve them.

I'm sorry, OP, but this dog sounds a nightmare.

Thanks everyone. We have decided we can't do this. We are retired and have had labs forever. Prob naive in thinking we could 'love him better'. Absolutely devastated and worried about his outcome.

All compounded bu the feeling that we are too old for a puppy.

Oh how sad. I agree that all rescues can't be tarred with the same brush. Tbh when I see 'only dog' I assume it will be reactive to other dogs unless the rescue explicitly explains otherwise (e.g. that they resource guard). They should be happy to expand and give a warts and all assessment though (the poor lab sounds to have a very extreme form of reactivity that they must have known about...).

I do feel for reactive dogs and their owners. My dog 'reacts' to all dogs, but not barking and lunging, rather she watches them and lies down if they come close, and that's bad enough—I now avoid other dogs when I can. I can see why someone wouldn't want to take a reactive dog on, I wouldn't want to, but also, what will happen to the hordes of 'only dog' dogs needing new homes, but being forced to live alongside them in kennels for indeterminate lengths of time, hearing endless distressing barking. Awful.

Have you considered going direct to a breed rescue?

One option might be to foster.

This was a breed rescue. Will keep looking.