Wormer and flea treatment for dogs

[SchnozzaHoomum]

Hi lovely dog mums and dads
Our mini schnauzer is 7, and in excellent health. After 6 years on Nexgard, our vet changed her treatment to Simparica. Suddenly she had cluster seizures and ended up in hospital. Brain scan and bloods were clear. We are assuming a potential reaction to the active ingredient in Simparica. Two months on, no more seizures, and I have her on a third of the prescribed drugs they gave us for epilepsy. I do not believe she has epilepsy and will be very gradually weaning her off this drug. We obviously didn't want to give her Simparica again. But the vet is charging £27 just for a prescription for Nexgard, which doesn’t even include the cost of the drug itself. I had a chat with one of the more qualified Pets At Home guys today, who explained how the additional benefits of Nexgard are prevention of lungworm and heart worm. Heart worm is very rare in the UK. Lung worm is low risk for us, as our dog never eats slugs, snails etc. My question is, can any of you fellow dog parents tell me about your experience of dog wormers and flea treatments? There are so many, and vets are an absolute disgrace. I refuse to be held to ransom by them. We are trying Frontline tablets (the one with the black and white spaniel on the pack). Any comments would be so much appreciated. Thank you.

My two-year old Labrador is on Simparico monthly then Droncit quarterly (for tapeworm).

My nine-year old springer spaniel is on Milpro monthly and wears a Seresto collar (for fleas and ticks) so that might be an alternative regime for you.

There is also Bravecto but I am not sure what it deals with and what the treatment intervals are.

I wouldn't rely on your dog not eating slugs and snails as they can consume them in grass or water, so can still be vulnerable to lungworm. A friend's dog was infested and it was very nasty and very expensive.

I don’t use either unless I see actual evidence of them having worms or fleas, which we haven’t had any of since my last cat died ten years ago. They get bathed once a fortnight. The odd time we did have fleas, from the cat bringing home rabbits, & worms in a new puppy, I just bought from VetUk, the non prescription brands.
The odd time I’ve found a tick I use one of those little twister tools to remove them. I don’t like pumping them with unnecessary chemicals.

Wormcount. So easy to do and then you only need to treat the specific worms if your dog has them.

Superb easy service and results back quickly.

I do not work for them but been a customer for many years. Interstingly only had to treat one dog ever for worms but also get the reasurance that my dogs are clear of worms.

Good for the environment, good for the dogs, accurate results - what not to like

Tics and fleas I check my dogs daily and remove as soon as they are seen. Non are on the dogs for longer than a few hours so no more risk of disease than having an oral medication. We have never had fleas regular grooming and hoovering helps a lot with this

Wormcount

If your dog is ok on nexgard I'd pay the £££ and suck it up. Maybe look at changing vets? I'm in a similar position with my dog reacting , I think, to Bravecto. My vets won't give the combination I'm happy with on the care plan so I'm looking at different vets.

While it is difficult to gauge the difference in veterinary prices please bare in mind it’s the companies who own the veterinary practice and not the staff inside who benefit from the difference in pricing, and due to the small amount they have to order in weekly compared to wholesale there it is always slightly more expensive unfortunately as we cannot compete with the online pricing of wholesalers, but it’s the head of the company who set the price.

I'm sorry to hear about the adverse reactions your per had, and I’m really glad he seems to be on the mend slowly unfortunately for a certain number of animals the reactions can be bad and it is case dependent.

Veterinary prescribed medication for flea and worm treatment are more effective than those you can get over the counter due to the fact they’re regulated and therefore can be better medication, Nexguard covers for all types of worm except for tape worm (covered by a 6 monthly administered tablet called Droncit) but it also covers fleas for up to 5 weeks and ticks for 4 weeks which means it is a 3-in-1 treatment and a popular choice for many owners. Alternatively, there is a pipette drop on treatment called advocate which covers flea and worm but again does not cover tick or tape worm. Although I understand your frustration with the pricing (we all get it in practices), I’d ask your veterinary clinic if they stock any of the alternatives and see if they can check the ingredients to ensure they do not have the active ingredient your pet is allergic to.

If your clinic has a pet health club/healthy pet club it may be worth signing up as that typically includes all flea/worm treatment monthly, vaccines etc for a fixed price per month and may be cheaper for you in the long run. You could also ask about getting a veterinary prescription (these do have a charge) but will allow you to purchase veterinary licensed medication cheaper online from wholesalers. If that all fails you could ring around other local practices and explain your dog cannot have simparico and ask if they stock alternatives like nexguard/advocate/bravecto, see if they have a pet health club and or what they charge for the weight of your pet x

I second worm count they are so quick with the results too, I tend to test twice yearly, and I haven't wormed my older dog in 9 years, I still use Advocate spot on and only if I see a flea, and never in the winter, even though my vets no longer sell it I get a prescription from them and order them from Vet UK, as read terrible reviews about nexguard online which is my vets choice of flea treatment now.

Its also worth remembering that worming tablets and treatment do not prevent worms.

They treat worms if your dog has them. No need for wormers if your dog does not have them just digested by your dog for nothing.

BVA are thining monthly treatment for worms and are strongly advising a case be case discussion about worming. Many independent vets are pushing the treat when required and advising wrm counting as the way forward.

You don't want to risk lungworm in your dog - it's incredibly nasty and doesn't show any signs until your dog is very unwell.

As a vet and an owner of an epileptic dog I did a lot of research around flea treatments and seizures.
A lot of the isoxazoline drugs ( nexgard, simparica and bravecto) lower the seizure threshold in dogs and cats. But those dogs that have seizures will already have a predisposition to having epilepsy ( and may have developed without having the isoxazoline drug).
All flea treatments reduce the seizure threshold one more than others. It is weighing up the risks in your area with the risks of a seizure. My dog is a standard poodle which like schnauzers have a higher than average risk of developing epilepsy. I live in a high risk area for Lyme disease and Lungworm so yes I use a combination product. My dog started seizures whilst on Nexgard Spectra and when I discussed it with the neurologist they advised once he had not had a seizure for 18 months then try reducing the dose, but that she felt he would have developed epilepsy no matter what flea treatment we had used.

Hi Muddyford
Ours was on a similar regime to yours: Nexgard plus Droncit. Thanks so much for your advice. X

Dear Needanadultgapyear
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate that. Can I ask you, as a vet, to answer completely honestly one thing that is bamboozling me: If the over the counter products such as Drontal and Frontline are ineffective, why would so many people trust them? And surely they wouldn’t be able to be sold in the UK? I do realise they aren’t for tackling lungworm, but apparently it is some vets who are describing them as useless.

Thank you, KeenOtter. I hate giving preventative drugs for conditions she may not ever have. How often do you have to have the worm testing done? Thank you.

Hello Darklane
This is the route I would prefer to go down. I don’t want to give our little dog powerful drugs that her body in all likelihood will never need. I am just concerned that this could be negligence. I have got myself in a right tizz over it. I wash her feet, legs and whiskers daily. It is a conundrum.

Simparico made my bullmastiff boy very sick
( vomiting ) so we stopped using them . My
frenchies on the other hand had no side effects .

Hi Keenotter
Thank you. My concern is how damaging lungworm could be if she did happen to get it, and what treatment would be involved.

Drontal and panacur are both very effective worming treatments for dogs. Unsure why some vets are saying otherwise given that it is frequently given to dogs with gardia.
Try one of the above with, perhaps, Advocate for fleas?

Hi moanycowbag 🤣
Love your name. How does the worm test thing work? Do you just send a sample? And what if you get an all-clear and then your dog gets worms right afterwards?

Natural dewormers such as rabbit ears with fur maybe?

Thank you Violetlady
Just concerned that Drontal does not cover lungworm.

Stressfordays
Pardon? 😃

If the over the counter products such as Drontal and Frontline are ineffective, why would so many people trust them? And surely they wouldn’t be able to be sold in the UK? I do realise they aren’t for tackling lungworm, but apparently it is some vets who are describing them as useless.

There's a big difference between something being ineffective and something being dangerous. As long as a treatment is proven to be safe, and any side effects are listed, then there's nothing stopping it from being sold in shops.

The reason they're described as useless is because, well, they are for the most part, unfortunately. Fleas become resistant to treatment and therefore what worked 20 years ago won't be as effective today, which is why it's always recommended to see a vet for a prescription.

Ultimately it's up to you as an owner what risks you take with your pet, but heart and lungworm can be fatal and the signs aren't always obvious until the infestation is really serious. It's not like intestinal worms in that sense.

My dog (novice dog owner of rescue dog we got 9 weeks ago) has bravecto for fleas and drontal for worms. Our vet advised us on those. Said frontline isn't effective anymore for fleas.
She advised a monthly tablet for lungworm as he's a terrier who stick his nose into everything.

You could go onto to advocate/prinocate if you were worried about lungworm, though this doesn’t cover for ticks. It is a different drug class to nexgard/simparica/bravecto, but is a drug which has been implicated in effects on aquatic species when small amounts of the spot on are washed into watercourses off pets/bedding.

Wormers containing milbemycin oxime (such as milbemax) also cover for lungworm if given monthly.

The lungworm thing requires some careful thought about risk (both in your geographical area and lifestyle of your dog) as current thinking is that many dogs are being over wormed which is not great for resistance or the environment.

BTW if you get the £29 prescription from your vet for the nexgard, you should be able to ask for a 6m supply with 1 repeat so it will probably still save you money on buying it RRP from the vets.

Natural dried treats with fur such as rabbit ears and deer legs are natural dewormers. I do use a dewormer tablet on my dog but he also has those alongside. I know people who only use the natural treats though!

Sageyboots, this is very interesting. Can I insist that the prescription is for six months’ supply? I didn’t know this.