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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Dog fight today - what to do?

14 replies

JessieEssex · 12/05/2024 17:56

We have two dogs - a 9 year old JRT cross and a nearly 2 year old Border terrier cross (has since a puppy) Both females. They get on really well almost all of the time - a lot of play fighting and more recently a lot of the older dog putting the younger one in her place when she gets too boisterous.
Today we had friends over for a bbq and it was quite hectic, my daughter got her drone out and the younger dog was going crazy barking at it so we put the drone away.
Older dog approaches younger and, in her way, tells her to calm down. Instead of backing down, younger dog flew at her and grabbed her neck, clamped down and started shaking her head. It was chaos and I managed to separate them, only for it to happen again almost instantly. Older dog had got some shallow puncture wounds.
It was terrifying and I'm at a bit of a loss of what to do next.
They were clearly both extremely hyped up on adrenaline and it tipped over but this is the first time that the younger dog hasn't backed down to 'her elder'.
They are now ok, I took them on a quiet walk to calm down and they were absolutely normal but I'm worried that it will happen again and am keeping a very close eye.
Should I expect the occasional flare up with two dogs or is this something I need to do some work on asap??
Sorry for long post but want to add as much detail as possible.

OP posts:
Toooldtoworry · 12/05/2024 18:00

Get a behaviourist ASAP. I imagine they can be ok but you'll have to watch for triggers. We've got 2 staffies that can be aggy with each other when the postie arrives or something out of the norm is happening.

Hoppinggreen · 12/05/2024 18:03

You have 2 breeds that can be feisty and are not known for being very dog friendly, plus 2 females can be a difficult combination.
I think you should consult a professional before anyone gets hurt

fieldsofbutterflies · 12/05/2024 18:03

Both dogs need to see a vet for a full health check, and then I would highly recommend you get professional help.

Bitches can (and do) fight to the death, so please don't brush this off as just "one of those things". If you hadn't been there to separate them, God knows what would have happened.

Itsneverme · 12/05/2024 18:04

Keep them separate at events, find out triggers, like today for example! When I see one of mine getting uncomfortable they get taken out of the situation. Mine barely fight thank goodness but it can get a bit hectic if we only take one ball out. Which means only one off the lead at a time to play fetch and then keep swapping between them all!

JessieEssex · 12/05/2024 18:10

Thanks everyone, I will look for a behaviourist tomorrow.

OP posts:
Devilshands · 12/05/2024 18:34

Dogs fight and two bitches is (usually) a bad idea - most good breeders advise against it unless you're an experienced owner (and even then they try and discourage it).

However, this is the bit that stands out to me:

more recently a lot of the older dog putting the younger one in her place when she gets too boisterous.

So, your older dog is getting on in years and is basically sick of the younger dog winding her up. How do you separate them? How do you stop the younger one pushing the older one? Does the older one have somewhere safe she can go to be away from the younger? Dog's shouldn't be left to wind each other up until one has to tell the other off - maybe once or twice, but all the time always leads to escalation eventually.

Until you can control the younger dog a bit more and not assume that 'play time' is always wanted or a good thing, this will keep happening.

Ultimately, a behaviourist won't do much. Most can barely tell their arse from their elbow and what you have here is an older dog who is sick of the younger one being a nob and the younger one now fighting back.

MyFirstLittlePony · 12/05/2024 18:39

This is quite common in a way if you have two bitches

It was the reason my second dog was a dog and not a bitch, as there is less chance of a power struggle between an older female and a male

(Not sure what the exact dog psychology is behind it! But it is what my dog breeder friend said)

The thing is that once the youngest batch has established superiority it might become a bit e for your old girl

I imagine dog behaviourists would be able to give the full picture and what to expect

Hope they get on better

JessieEssex · 12/05/2024 18:48

@Devilshands sorry I wasn't clear about that. The older dog will literally seek out the young one when she's enjoying herself and muscle in and tell her off. It's not when she's being 'too much' for the older one in a one on one sense. Older dog gets a lot of time and space for herself - we've always done that for her. But they enjoy each other's company (until today!) and will spend hours pottering round the garden together and in the evening spend ages wrestling and then fall asleep wrapped round each other. Older dog is very good at telling the younger one when she's had enough and until today that has been respected.

OP posts:
Devilshands · 12/05/2024 18:59

JessieEssex · 12/05/2024 18:48

@Devilshands sorry I wasn't clear about that. The older dog will literally seek out the young one when she's enjoying herself and muscle in and tell her off. It's not when she's being 'too much' for the older one in a one on one sense. Older dog gets a lot of time and space for herself - we've always done that for her. But they enjoy each other's company (until today!) and will spend hours pottering round the garden together and in the evening spend ages wrestling and then fall asleep wrapped round each other. Older dog is very good at telling the younger one when she's had enough and until today that has been respected.

Ah! That's worse if the older dog is seeking out the younger one to tell her off (as opposed to the younger one just being a pain)...that's a dominance issue. What do you do when that happens?

That being said, it doesn't really change my assessment as it sounds slightly like neither of your dogs are truly 100% comfortable with the dynamic or each other - if they were then the younger one wouldn't have bitten back today and the older one wouldn't keep seeking the younger one out to tell her off.

I'd try and get them to spend less time together to prevent issues like these, if you can, as the most effective solution. Neither dog should be allowed to 'tell off' the other dog on a semi-regular basis. I don't think a behaviourist will do much (as I said in my PP) given this is a dog dynamic issue and not a behavioural one...

JessieEssex · 12/05/2024 19:28

@Devilshands thanks so much that's really interesting. I must admit we tend to laugh when older dog comes along and pulls rank on the younger one - we call her the 'fun police'. Now I can see that she needs to be stopped in her tracks when she does this.
Is this a typical age for the younger dog to start to try and assert herself? She's 21 months old.

OP posts:
Devilshands · 12/05/2024 20:07

JessieEssex · 12/05/2024 19:28

@Devilshands thanks so much that's really interesting. I must admit we tend to laugh when older dog comes along and pulls rank on the younger one - we call her the 'fun police'. Now I can see that she needs to be stopped in her tracks when she does this.
Is this a typical age for the younger dog to start to try and assert herself? She's 21 months old.

The problem is if you stop her (or tell her off), it can escalate the situation. This is because she'll stop doing it (because she knows she shouldn't) but she may just snap one day because she is just a dog so instincts take over. What you need to do is avoid putting them in situations where one dog feels the need to 'tell off' the other.

It needs quite carefully handling and completely depends on what the triggers are and learning them. What you don't want to do is inadvertently worsen the situation i.e. treat them both as equals because, tbh, they're not. You have an older dog and a younger dog and they need to be treated with that in mind. Your older dog is unhappy (which is why she's telling the younger one off) and if, until now, the younger dog has accepted that then that's good. It's much better than two dogs duking it out all the time.

In terms of triggers, if for example your younger dog is being fussed lots and 'acting out' to get attention and you're reacting to that or giving her lots of fusses or she's being loud and irritating that can set off jealously.

If you're saying something like 'Penny, no' (for example) that can sometimes trigger the older dog because they think the other dog has done something naughty (my cocker reacts like this if I tell my other dogs off in a particular voice).

One of my cockers triggers is actually the other dogs going through any door before her. Which sounds completely nuts. But it is. She likes to go through straight after me, with them behind her. She tells them off if they go through before her. No idea why. But it's her 'thing'

I don't think there's a typical age for it but, of course, as dogs grow up and become more confident in themselves and their surroundings they become more likely to push each other.

To help manage my cocker, I did the following, which really helped (and is something I've kept doing with successive dogs)

  • Feeding the oldest dog first, then the middle and then the youngest
  • No toys left out for them to fuss with outside key play times
  • No long-lasting treats or raw-hide bones
  • Lots of exercise and mental stimulation (2-3 hours of walks a day as mine are energetic breeds)
  • Lots of individual 1-2-1 time with me.
  • A 'safe' space for each of them and time away from each other during the day.
  • No overstimulating any of them including rough games of tug of war etc. (particularly my current puppy as he's mouthy and I realised my cocker doesn't like seeing him mouth me)
  • If I think they're getting a bit too excited I walk away from whichever one it is

Don't forget that dogs will give off signals - as yours are doing. So your eldest, by telling off the younger one for whatever she is doing, is saying 'stop it.' You need to respect that and find a balance between not endorsing the behaviour but not immediately rushing to the younger dog and saying 'there there, it's okay.'

Behaviourists may have other suggestions, but this is a long-term dog-dynamic issue that will need management rather than a behavioural issue (such as SA) to be solved...

I hope that helps! I'm definitely not an expert, but the above is how I approached/managed my cocker and is has worked. It is tiring, but it's made her a lot happier

JessieEssex · 12/05/2024 21:30

@Devilshands This is all so helpful thank you.

OP posts:
user1471556818 · 12/05/2024 21:56

You've had some good advice on here
This happened to my 2 female dogs , I hadn't realised this was the worst combination.
I did loads of work and really controlled their space and interaction.
I was shocked about how brutal their fight was .
I never left them again alone together tbh as I didn't trust it wouldn't happen again .
Have always had 2 dogs but will never have 2 females again

PrincessConsuelaBag · 12/05/2024 22:08

Ah we have had several fights between our bitches. If I could go back I would’ve definitely stuck with the one dog!

we have talk safety gates separating some rooms and younger ddog has a crate she can go in if she’s getting a bit too much.

they are not allowed any long lasting treats nor do we let them play fight because like kids one will always end up worse off and it can evolve in to actual fighting. They are fed their food separately too.

it has definitely took some of the fun/enjoyment of dog ownership away! I am always on alert for their body language and stuff!

good luck!

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