New puppy - what would you do re: time alone? Crate vs kitchen vs living room

[moonriver32]

We have had our new pup since Saturday, he is now 9 weeks. We are trying to persevere with crate training, he's great at night on the whole, goes in happily, settles quickly and sleeps well (with toilet breaks). I've been sleeping on the sofa with the crate next to me and gradually moved it closer to the kitchen (end goal) which is where it is now.

Despite us making the crate a den and doing everything we can go make it the happiest place on earth (Kongs, Lickimats, snufflemats, special chews, feeding his meals in there, lots of treats and praise etc) he is not overly happy in there during the day. He is not especially food motivated except for treats (not enthusiastic about meals, isn't fussed about the Kongs or Lickimats etc) If I pop him in the crate or leave him in the kitchen behind the babygate to go upstairs he cries...

However if I leave him loose in our main living room where we spend most of our time (sofa, TV etc) that's just off the kitchen, and go upstairs or even out of the front door for a minute, he's not bothered. He will settle on the floor or in his bed or on the bottom stair and seems quite chilled (we have cameras)

The main goal is to get him comfortable being alone for short periods, so would you persevere with the crate/kitchen or just let him be where he's happy, if it means he has a positive association with being on his own for a bit? The room is not fully puppy-proofable which is why we were hoping that the kitchen area would be where he chilled when not supervised. He hasn't destroyed anything yet though.

Note - I am not talking about going out and leaving him at this early stage, just when we need the toilet/need to do bath and bed with my son etc! We've always thought crate is the only way forward but I'm now doubting myself!

Any thoughts welcome.

If he's happy enough to be loose in a safe area then I would just go with that. My beagle was never crate trained as he hated it and he was never destructive ☺️

I always have a playpen set up around my puppies crates so that I can leave the crate door open but they can't start chewing the sofa. This also means that if you are held up they come out of the crate to wee in the pen so you don't ruin your toilet training by forcing them to wee in their crate bed.

@Springadorable We do have a playpen but there's not really a space that can comfortably accommodate the crate and the pen without taking over the majority of our living space! When we used it with our previous dog we had a different furniture set up.

@fieldsofbutterflies Sounds like a good boy! Did you do this when you popped out too?

You will find as your pup becomes more self aware that they won’t be happy to be left at all anywhere. So do prepare for that.

We dog proofed our main living room and one of us was with pup at all times for many months. We had no destruction or problems and no it didn’t create a needy dog. Quite the opposite.

We have two labs, 1&3. Neither have ever been crated in the day. We restricted access to certain areas only when first left alone. They've never been destructive when left.

@moonriver32 we did! We were very lucky that he never destroyed anything.

I think it is cruel to lock a puppy in a cage. They have been taken away from their home, mother and siblings so it can be a scary time for them.
We have 3 dogs and never put any in a cage.
When we first get a puppy they sleep in our bed with us to begin with. We put something across the bedroom door so the puppy cannot get out but the older dogs can.
When the puppy is more settled / bigger we let them sleep where ever they like.
Our youngest dog currently sleeps in between us in bed.
The eldest dog sleeps on our bedroom floor.
The middle one sleeps downstairs on her own.
We close our son's bedroom door at night so the dogs cannot get into his bedroom but other than that they have free run of the house.
We have never had any problems.
During the day if we needed to do something alone we would just ensure that the puppy and our son were in separate parts of the house and couldn't get to each other (just in case) but let the puppy have free run of whatever area they were in. Again never had any issues.
When I used to do bath time / bed time with my son I used to take the puppy's bed with me and put in on the bathroom floor or my son's bedroom floor. Most of the time the puppy would just lay in her bed and go to sleep while I did what I needed to do
It we wanted a caged pet we would have got a bird or a hamster or something.

I only used the crate in the early days for short periods of time during the day, for example if I needed a shower. It was a way to contain a small puppy (he was tiny) and know he wasn't going to hurt himself if my eyes weren't on him.

In my mind it's similar to using a cot for a baby, you know they're safe and contained.

Tbh it sounds like you're doing all the right things, if he settles happily outside the crate then I wouldn't push it. Just use it for the times when you have to pop out or can't watch him.

Just go cold turkey. Put him where you want him to sleep, either in the crate or loose, if the latter don't have anything they can chew lying around. We had a small entrance hall. They adjust really quickly as young puppies but will not once older. I did this the very first night and it was absolutely fine.

Crate training can also be a way to toilet train in the day. That's what I used it for up to 15 weeks...I put him there for naps and stayed very close, and then went in the garden the rest of the time....literally all day to crack the toilet training aspect (by this time he was 13weeks and still confused about where he was meant to pee, so i went back to crate training in tge day) Our pup stopped using crate for naps by 6 months. He was a miniature poodle and he liked space to stretch out all over the house.

So honestly I wouldn't bank on crate as a long-term way of leaving him when he is older, but for now it is a good way to schedule naps and leave him safely for an hour. And then two hours
We thoroughly devoted ourself to crate training, stayed next to him in crate for weeks in the day when not supervising him, slept next to crate at night for three weeks etc and have ended up with a dog that can be left for four hours by one year with free range of downstairs. Crate is like a cot, no need to use it long-term.

But our pup was 12 weeks when we got him so used to lots of company.

Our dog is six years old now and next to me on the sofa...his favourite sleeping spot, apart from my bed, or his bed or the hall floor...he likes lots of places and chooses to be alone or in company.

Puppies are completely wired for companionship and I think it is cruel to put them in a crate and leave them alone, unless they have a cast iron sleep routine which comes later...at the moment you might be stopping him sleeping by leaving him there in the day to cry...it's like controlled crying for babies not advisable at a certain age. Yes, let them settle themselves but stay close whilst they do it.

Separation anxiety can stem from leaving a dog too early to settle itself when you aren't nearby

Do you spend time in the kitchen with him when he's in the crate? When you're cooking etc?

I've got to be honest I've crate trained all mine and they've all liked the crate, despite a bit of minor whinging at first. It's reassuring to know that they can't wreck the living room when you go out.

I've always built the time up very gradually by coming in and out regularly and rewarded them for being quiet/relaxed. They've taken to it pretty quickly so tbh I'd try and persevere.

Crate training is a really effective PROVEN way to prevent separation anxiety and to toilet train. It's not cruel, it's creating a safe space for them for short periods of time, and anyone who has done an ounce of research will know this. You put a baby in a cot and walk away, why do dogs have to be by your side constantly? It's a recipe for separation anxiety.

I have had one dog who I let absolutely everywhere from day one, in the bed and everything, that ended up with separation anxiety so bad that I had to spend hundreds on dog daycare and dog sitters every month as he would destroy the house and get very very stressed if he was left alone for either five minutes. I have two dogs now that I've got since he died, both crate trained as puppies. I've had no is issues with separation anxiety and toilet training was super quick. It's also a really good way to encourage downtime when they're in constant play/destroy mode as puppies. They rarely have their crate doors shut now, not since they were about one year old, but choose to sleep and chill out in there.

Obviously you may be one of the lucky ones whose dog will be fine either way, I just wouldn't risk it as having a dog with real separation anxiety will take over your life. They shouldn't be left alone as puppies anyway and you should respond to them when they're in their crate - this is about working them up to spending time alone when they're old enough.

I would try this fb group which is run by professional behaviourists and they have a complete guide on all things puppy.

https://www.facebook.com/share/fuZgfcp8vxZR3WhL/?mibextid=K35XfP

I would leave him where he is happy, though I'd work on thoroughly puppy-proofing that area. I've never used crates on a regular basis. When my dogs are very young, they are either with me or in a room that is safe for them. As they get older, they can choose where to spend their time. A crate is definitely not essential. I certainly wouldn't use one with a puppy like yours who is letting you know that he is not comfortable in the crate.

We have a cocker spaniel who is nearly 2, he loves his crate. As a pup always happy to sleep in it at night, not so keen during the day. We persevered with it during the day, popping him in when he needed a nap, to feed him etc if he wasn’t happy we sat next to it and if he didn’t settle we took him out tried again later. Our old dog also would lay next to the crate to settle him! I think crate training is essential personally

We crate trained all of ours. With the pups, they moved out of the whelping pen and into the crate for sleeping. We didn't close the gate fully, just pushed it over at night when we gave them a bedtime snack and 'tucked them in'!
When our old dog needed peace and lots of sleep, we brought the crate back out. He went straight in and pulled the gate over!
For if/when your pup needs crate rest, it's worth having crate trained when young so it's a familiar safe space.

Tbh I would crate him. Crates are designed to be used as sage spaces and to keep them contained. Vets and groomers use them so best to get your pup used to it.

Safe*

Absolutely agree with this, we didn’t crate train our first dog and we spent thousands trying to solve the separation anxiety that came from taking him absolutely everywhere with us in the early days. It nearly broke us to be honest. With our second puppy we did our research and crate trained properly, and we have a far less anxious/more settled dog and the whole family is happier.
Some people are lucky and have a dog who copes fine being left, but we couldn’t risk it again. And we have a happy, content little dog who knows where her ‘safe space’ is.

I don't think I agree with crating. You're basically locking the dog away. It seems unnecessary and restrictive. Why can't dogs just sleep in an open bed? We had ddogs growing up None were ever destructive but they grew up and just learnt their way as they went.

Some dogs aren’t comfortable sleeping in an open bed. It makes them anxious. They like to have a ‘safe space’ that they can retreat to. My 8 month old puppy takes herself voluntarily into her crate and nudges the door shut when she wants some peace.

Fair enough. I think it's quite a new concept isn't it? I have never seen a crate in person but it makes me think of a cage which I'm sure it's nothing like. How does crating prevent separation anxiety?