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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Arthritis in dog's paws :(

9 replies

CocoonofDavid · 30/04/2024 20:03

Dear All,

I know there are some vets and very experienced people here so I just wondered if anyone had any advice before we speak to our vets.

We have an elderly Labrador. She is coming up to 13. She is very well in herself, happy bouncy, super keen on going for walks, seeing people, playing etc (and of course, eating!!). She is a good weight. Obviously she has a tendency to get chunky if you take your eye off the ball. She gained weight in December after our eldest was back from uni and was sharing all his snacks. She jumped up to 29.9kg, but is now back down to 28.4kg which is much better for her frame. I am keenly aware that any extra weight is a strain on her joints.

She has been on 4 weekly librela injections since November. We decided to seek advice from our vet at that point as she had started not wanting to go upstairs/struggling a bit to get into the car etc, and being a bit stiff the day after a bigger than usual walk.

The vet said she's doing super well for her age, but, as to be expected, is a bit creaky. She said, upon examination, she thought there was restricted movement in her right stifle and that she probably had arthritis in her toes.

At that point I don't think her feet looked that bad. However, I have noticed over the last month or so that they have definitely got worse. The left one in particular - it is larger, and two of the toes more splayed/wonky. I do my best to keep the nails short. It is now a bit tricky as I think it is uncomfortable for her for me to be fiddling with them to clip them. I don't think I could get any more off, without being too close to the quick and risk bleeding... but I am trying to do it quickly, so that she is in discomfort for the least amount of time, so maybe I am wrong (being black with black nails I am guessing as I can't actually see).

In terms of her movement, she looks as she did before - sound except for if she has done 'too much' (which these days is more than a 40/45 min walk, getting the zoomies in the garden etc). It's just the feet look worse than they were and I rather head them off, if possible.

I was wondering if there is anything else we can do? I don't think she is having more pain- she is sound in her movement and still keen as ever. I am just asking if there's anything I can do to slow down the deterioration of her toes/ anything to relieve them specifically?

Thanks!

OP posts:
Flowersonmyorchid · 30/04/2024 20:38

If she's not keen on you fiddling with her toes and didn't mind before then chances are they are sore. Is she on an nsaid like previcox at all?

fieldsofbutterflies · 01/05/2024 06:53

I think you need to look at massively reducing her exercise. 40 minutes is a lot for an elderly labrador, especially all at once.

Flowersonmyorchid · 01/05/2024 08:47

Disagree re reducing the exercise. For a lot of dogs, especially old ones, going out is all the interest they get in a day. Obviously don't take her running, but she should manage a 40 mins potter and sniff. If not then there are serious quality of life issues to consider.

fieldsofbutterflies · 01/05/2024 08:53

Flowersonmyorchid · 01/05/2024 08:47

Disagree re reducing the exercise. For a lot of dogs, especially old ones, going out is all the interest they get in a day. Obviously don't take her running, but she should manage a 40 mins potter and sniff. If not then there are serious quality of life issues to consider.

OP says herself that her dog is struggling after a 40 minute walk - why would you continue to take a dog out for that long knowing it was in considerable pain afterwards?

Reducing exercise could mean doing two shorter twenty minute walks, or driving to a grassy area for a potter. You can also take dogs out to socialise without taking them for walks - a drive to the pub so the dog can lay in the sun, for example, or to the beach for a gentle paddle.

I don't think no longer being able to walk for 40 minutes means you need to look at quality of life. Lots of old dogs just go out for a short potter and spend the rest of their days snoozing in the sunshine - it's very normal and certainly not a sign that the end is near!

CocoonofDavid · 01/05/2024 11:47

Ok, hang on a sec, perhaps I didn't explain myself well... or people are just making quite the leap.

I did not say she is in considerable pain or struggling to walk....

What I said was doing more than 40/45 min walks is too much, or when she (obviously of her own volition because she is an otherwise well and happy dog) gets the zoomies, playing with her 9 year old niece in the garden for a long period, running about like a lunatic.

What I didn't, and clearly should have explained, was what I mean by too much- She is sound and looks absolutely fine at the time, full of beans and very keen, later that day when she gets up she is stiff, and abducts her right leg slightly. Left to her own devices she would do far more than I think she should. I am certainly not dragging a reluctant, lame dog about whilst she is in considerable pain as a previous poster suggested!

She doesn't actually do a 40/45 min walk every day, and double checking back I didn't say that. I said doing more than 40/45 mins was too much for her. Most days she does a 30 min walk for the school run, and then a 10/15 min potter round the block for a sniff later on in the evening. Two days a week she does 40/45 min whilst we wait for one of the kids at sports club which lasts 45 min.

Is she obviously lame or limping to the casual observer? No.

Does this movement pattern last for more than a few hours? No.

Do I see many many dogs out and about with far FAR worse movement/actually obviously lame? Absolutely (Of course that doesn't make it right!)

However, I am wondering whether you have read the above post and are thinking she is some poor crippled, sad, old thing, obviously hobbling about on 3 legs! She is not! Most people, including vets and the vet nurses when meeting her for the first time, are very surprised by how old she is.

She saw the vet less than a month ago, who was very happy with her. These are slight changes that I, as a slightly neurotic owner, am noticing. Something that I have mused over with our physio previously, is that dog owners who also have horses are often extra critical of their dogs movement, because they are so used to watching their horses move/being alert for any unsoundness. It is completely unacceptable for a ridden animal to have any sort of discomfort/uneveness and therefore owners need to be hyper-vigilant, which leads them to be extra aware of how their dogs move too. I am wondering if in complaining about her movement, you are all thinking I have an obviously lame dog in constant pain, when in fact I have a dog who is in discomfort after too much exertion, but in a much subtler way - which I am obviously trying my best to address but it is not the same ball game.

She doesn't like me fiddling with her toes, stretching them out to clip them. She was never keen on having her nails done, and would avoid handing them over if possible. I think she is slightly less keen than before. However, as I know from my mum who has arthritis in her feet, having your toes pulled about (in her case by medics, not someone clipping her claws!) is uncomfortable vs not being pulled about. As she doesn't have lameness on the front legs, I do not think she is having pain in her general every day movement, as far as I can tell.

Running through the CBPI for her again at this time, I am not worried, I am not seeing any major changes in her scores from when we discussed it with the vet previously.

I have absolutely no concerns whatsoever about her quality of life!

When she was first prescribed the librela, the vet and I discussed NSAIDs. However, they incur the risk of nasty side effects, which the vet said we would be best to avoid if possible as she was so well in herself and would hopefully be on whatever we chose to manage the arthritis for a long time (and therefore she didn't want to risk her ending up with ulcers etc). The vet said that despite the cost librela was therefore the better option for us. Incidentally the vet was all for making sensible decisions on the balance between doing what she enjoys vs risking being stiff later. She said that if she ever does overdo it, to give her 1/2 a paracetamol which was a perfectly acceptable form of pain relief, especially as we were only using very occasionally.

The purpose of my post was to see if there was anything that directly targets arthritis inflammation in certain areas? Eg in horses we can either inject arthritic joints with steroids or with more modern drugs like arthramid (as opposed to drugs like Tilden which act all over). The librela she is currently on doesn't target specific areas but (to my understanding) deals with pain and inflammation in the body as a whole. In previous discussions with the vet such targeted injections have never been mentioned. I have seen some articles on google re the bigger joints... but nothing on toes as perhaps too small. Im guessing the answer to my question was probably no, but worth an ask... obviously we will speak to our vet as well.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Flowersonmyorchid · 01/05/2024 12:43

Yes you can inject into the joints, but typically it's larger joints. My collie had it for her elbow, but for her it didn't make much difference. For us as she was highly active and showing obvious lameness (she also had a badly healed break from before I got her) we decided to go with allll of the meds and if it was her kidneys that finally got her then so be it. As it was she lived to 16 before deciding she'd had enough (and had been on a 1.5 hour mooching walk two days before). So while I get your concern over long term meds, some have higher safety margins than others (e.g. previcox is generally better tolerated than metacam) so worth considering in the future as I don't think you'll be able to target toes.
Best of luck to your doggy - it's awful the pain some animals have to put up with under the guise of "oh he's just old". Sounds like you're on it 💪

Dearg · 01/05/2024 16:41

Hi Op,
My 13year old lab boy has a similarly splayed foot from arthritis.
As well as Librela he has complementary therapies - laser and ultrasound on his foot and supporting muscles from a physio. My vet referred us.

Like you, we keep walks short, on grass , and I seek out areas where lots of dogs walk, so there’s a lot to sniff. He is also a typically sociable chap, so the opportunity to meet other dogs also makes him happy.

I use a lot of Mushers on his feet as the pressure can make him more prone to cuts.
Hugs to your girl.

Needanadultgapyear · 02/05/2024 07:49

As a. Vet who sees a lot of canine arthritis and has done equine work in the past.
Modern horses as my show jumping neighbour says are much more fragile and we tend to use steroids into joints to give temporary relief rather than use long terms NSAIDs due to the risk of ulcers. We euthanise horses at a much earlier stage of arthritis than dogs partly due their need to most sleep standing.
Steroid injections into the joints of dogs are not something we use regularly as there is some evidence that they can accelerate arthritis. Librela purely blocks pain, it has no anti- inflammatory action, it does have side effects. All drugs have side effects and it is always weighing up which are of least concern for you and your dog. Personally in my hands I find other combinations better than Librela, but that maybe influenced by the type of dogs I see.

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