Elderly rescue dog never lead walked

[Yujismum]

I have had rescue dogs before so not unfamiliar. I have had my present lovely and clever JRx rescue for the past 6 weeks. She was in a poor state when found but has put weight on and is much better since a mouthful of infected and rotten teeth have been removed! She is food driven but also nose driven. If outside nose comes first! She has no walking on lead skills and literally gallops when we are on grass. On pavements she is slightly better. I have a perfect fit harness and did use a halti. But the halti is quite hard along the chest area because of D ring. The perfect fit less hard there. She has started to runaway when I try to put the harness on. I have only used the perfect fit for the last few days. I hate the fact that she is clearly uncomfortable to say the least when going for a walk. She wants to go when I suggest it and is very excited. I know the theory of using food to reward her for looking at me and letting the lead go slack. But her sense of smell often intervenes and I have to admit, I’m no spring chicken, and struggle with training her. Her age unknown but vet said she is well into double figures. One dog expert I spoke to said she is taking charge of the walks and isn’t enjoying them, because she doesn’t yet trust me and advised not taking her out, but to train on lead indoors and garden. Garden very small. The dog is able to be separate from me within the house but if I go outside the front door to do bins or whatever, she becomes extremely distressed unsurprisingly given what little is known of her history. So apart from anything else not taking her out also means I can’t leave the house. I guess I’m asking what thoughts anyone has. Any similar experience?

If was a halti no pull along with D-ring rubbing or pinching skin, it works by restricting shoulder movement which in turn alters gait and perhaps as she's an older dog may also have some arthritis or tendonitis. Sometimes harness waist can sit too close to the armpits & rub there too.
If you can't use a collar to walk her on instead in the meantime I'd spend next couple of days just build up her confidence in wearing the perfect fit harness so use some of her meal allowance to over course of day to reward her.
So start with just putting harness out where she can investigate it and reward her choosing to be near the harness rather than running away, then get a treat for putting head through the open neck hole, then when that's ok & established pretending to do waist up, then with clipping it & taking off again ( sometimes they don't like clip sound or have skin/fur caught and pulled in past), wearing for minute then removing, building up gradually the time worn around the house

You'd need to let her dictate pace so that she is choosing to do the action, is showing she is happy and comfortable before progressing to next step, so you may need to alter or break into smaller steps if she doesn't appear to want to engage. It will also help you understand if she's wary of anything else about harness and hopefully she'll realise this one doesn't feel the same if it was pain. A short term intensive effort but think how much will be saved daily over the rest of her years of life.

Julie Naismith is helpful for separation anxiety, perhaps order the Be Right Back book to have a read if will stuck indoors and can look practice some of the basics steps for that.
https://julienaismith.com/

Many thanks ScattyHatty. She does have some arthritis though considering her age not bad. (I empathise with her). I think she is less uncomfortable with the Perfect fit. Is there any other harness which would be comfortable? I do hope in time to be able to let her off lead but am not convinced that will be possible. When she has good recall, which I’m practicing, I will hire a field slot for her to have a good run. Though I will check it out first on lead as she is so small that she could get through any small space. Thanks for the ref to reading material for separation anxiety.

Is there a reason she needs to be in a harness? Can she not just wear a collar?

Where are you located @Yujismum ? If you are within an hour of Winchester, I'll come and show you some techniques with no charge. PM me.

(I am a dog trainer)

Would a nose collar thing be worth trying?

https://amzn.to/3UeTt6Z

You could have a look at the K9 bridle if she might tolerate that, gives greater head control, less pulling than when on the harness. You can clip it to a front harness clip or a collar. I would keep on with the perfect fit harness like above use treats to build a positive association.

Head collars are considered aversives - I really wouldn't use one on an elderly, anxious dog.

Thanks for the link. I’ve had a look. It seems it works for some. It’s early days with her yet, had her 6 weeks today. We had a very slightly less pulling walk this morning.

We have a little rescue hound and she really cowers when her harness goes on. She's reactive so can't afford for her to escape.

Anyway she's better on collar and lead - and is always fine once walking in the harness - but I think we have learnt that in 8 years her early memories still affect her.

We make the best of her (oh and she has no recall despite years of training) so we do interesting sniffy walks and meet friends she likes, ninja away from those we don't!

I have something called a “Dogmatic’. The make, which I had long forgotten. Found it in the depths of a cupboard yesterday. I had a rescue Red Setter x Collie many years ago and used it for a short while. She didn’t need it after a couple of weeks. But I’m not sure about using something like that for my current dog. But will keep trying with positive association to PF.

My JRx is not reactive. Likes other dogs. Doesn’t exactly cower but does back away from having harness put on. So I think she is less traumatised than your little rescue hound. She knows quite a few words. My fantasy is that she was once loved or at least kindly treated by someone and then something happened which changed everything for her. So perhaps unlike your dog, her early life was good, or reasonable. It’s a guessing game with a rescue isn’t it?
You just want to improve their lives or even give them a life which they have never experienced. It sounds like that’s what you do for your rescue.

I’m not sure how she would be outside with just a collar and lead. I suppose I’m so afraid that she will somehow get away. Though I could try it, taking the harness with me!
There are moments when she sees another dog (not every dog) and acts as though she knows them. She will suddenly pull wildly and leap about trying to get to them at the same time crying.

I'd say she's much more likely to slip a harness she dislikes vs. a collar that she doesn't, especially if the collar is secure and well fitting with a buckle rather than a clasp.

When we got our rescue boy the advice was collar and lead plus a slip lead (so two leads) to ensure flight risk was as minimal as it could be.

How's she with other dogs? Do you have any friends with very friendly dogs she could have a gradual out of house interaction with and maybe progress to walking together? Our rescue learnt a lot from our older dog

Could you go for a martingale collar, she shouldn’t be able to get out of that.
But in practical help I’d practice walking nicely in the house, when she’s cracked that, round the garden, then up and down the street and keep adding stuff. Like a puppy

Lastqueenofscotland2
Was just about to ask what a Martingale collar was as have just seen them on Amazon.

Kayjay2018.

I don’t like slip leads.
Shes fine with other dogs, likes them or just ignores them.
yes I also thought about walking with another dog. That may be helpful.

When we got our girl she was 6 and had never been lead walked.

She hated the lead and harness. In the end I took her out with a friend’s dog. Put lead on her first before my dog. Did this a few times together and walked them together. She eventually got the hang of it my watching my friend’s dog.

Could you do something like that?

@Yujismum yes the slip lead was only used on the first few walks for back up, we tried a harness but found he walks better with a lovely collar and lead. We have had him over 5 years and he is still a little scared if walked alone. He walks so much better with our Doberman alongside and she walks quite nicely,

Thank you all for your advice.
Just an update really. I had a retractable lead and decided to try it. Remarkably she was much better on the retractable lead. Not perfect but at least I wasn’t being pulled over. Have used it two days running now and she really is much better with it. I have quite painful arthritis in my hands and the retractable I have is bulky and rather painful so I have ordered a long line. Will see how that goes.