Saying goodnight to a healthy young dog (aggression)

[Glowecestrescire]

Has anyone, taken the hard decision to let a dog go, because of human aggression?

He's an abused rescue, and only a baby, but would it be kinder? We're still doing everything we can, but at what point do you question if sometimes you need to make the awful decision.

I did. I couldn't trust him. He was a large, strong dog (Doberman) and it was dog aggression, not towards people but anyone in the way...

It came to a head when he went for a small dog walking next to a child and he just lunged. I had pretty good reflexes with him so yanked him back but he was going absolutely bananas.

I had to drop my other dogs lead to be able to get a good enough grip to control him. My other dog went straight into it, got between him and the child (she was very protective of children) and was barking and warning him off and I just thought 'Even she knows that he's a liability.'

He saw ALL the trainers, behaviourists etc. I spent 2 years straight, just trying to train it out if him but it was like a switch flipped. He was perfect. Reliable 100% of the time until he saw another dog. Then it was like tunnel vision, he didn't see or hear me, the other owner, didn't take in anything said to him, all he saw was the other dog. He couldn't be trusted. I was gutted but it was necessary.

Ex-MIL did. She was a professional dog trainer and the dog (a showline pedigree) was absolutely gorgeous. MIL described her as a dream to train and had been perfectly behaved around my children at home and on holiday, their other dogs, our dog, sheep, rabbits, everything. The rehomer said that they'd send through the vet details in a couple of days, but she'd had some steroids - for an allergic reaction to a bee sting, apparently.

Couple of weeks after the holiday, she sat as usual to wait for MIL to put their food bowls down (she did them a fully organic BARF diet) and as MIL stood up and gave them the command that said they could eat, she launched at MIL's face instead.

The ILs took the dog straight to their vet to be PTS. Lesions on the brain and signs of an unconnected skull injury that was healing on PM. So she'd been suffering for long enough for somebody to decide to rehome (had probably bitten previously, IMO) and then suffered more because there wasn't any sign other than sudden, extreme aggression.

Poor bloody woman was beside herself with guilt and sadness for not realising. But didn't regret the decision to PTS - she regretted the need to do it, not the decision. Didn't regret threatening to sue unless the rehomer provided the details of the breeder so she could notify them, either.

Tl;dr

Yes. MIL. It was the right thing to do.

It's our responsibility to make the right decisions, however much they hurt us.

Is the rescue breed specific? Or the behaviourist? If not, is it worth contacting breed specific rescues to get advice?

Has the dog bitten? If so, did it give warnings including subtle ones like wide side eyes, lip licking, yawning etc or was it out of the blue?

Some people do look at taking on dogs that bite because they understand the dog bit because it was stressed in a particular situation and they ensure that situation is not repeated (eg child repeatedly pulling tail). It really is very dependent on the reasons behind the dog's reaction.

You entirely the right thing.

I support a local rescue fostering, so have seen this outcome for some dogs too far past the point of help. It sounds like both the vet and rescue agree this is the kindest outcome?

If you really have tried behaviourists, vet and a breed specific rescue and there is no option of rehoming to someone with more time and ability then this is the kindest thing. It's a horrible experience but it is part of being a responsible dog owner. Sorry for you and your pup.

Yes, this is what I was going to say. Occasionally a dog has mental difficulties in the same way as a human can. It could be genetic, or a birth injury, something neurological, or even early trauma.

It sounds like you have tried all reasonable routes to help. In this case putting to sleep is the kindest option. He'll be with the people that he knows and loves; that's so much better than multiple failed attempts at rehoming, ending up in unfamiliar places. I'm sorry that you're having to do this, but I think it's best for the dog.

Eh? The rescue shouldn't have rehomed him with such problems, but you think the op should pass the buck and rehome him to somewhere else? When does it stop for the poor dog? A peaceful death in the arms of someone who loves him is not the worst outcome for an aggressive dog.

Don’t be ridiculous / it’s a dog, who could seriously injure someone.

He'll be with the people that he knows and loves; that's so much better than multiple failed attempts at rehoming, ending up in unfamiliar places. He'll be with the people that he knows and loves; that's so much better than multiple failed attempts at rehoming, ending up in unfamiliar places

I agree with this. The easy option is finding some dodgy rescue that will take him on and sell him on again.

I want to defend the rescue - when he came to us, these issues weren't apparent, and at any rate, given we work with abused dogs, they will ways have issues. We know that, quite frankly, given what some of these have been through, I don't blame them.

We adopted this chap. He really is beautiful, and such a gentle soul - but there is a responsibility in helping damaged dogs. Sometimes the trauma is too much.

It's the first time we've got to this point. We absolutely will not let him go anywhere else. I could feel the passion in one of the responses - but he's ours, and we are thinking of him only. He'll be with us until the end, even if that is shorter than any of us would like, or he deserves.

I did years ago with a rescue German shepherd. I had been rescuing and rehabbing GSD all my life so not new to the game. She was unpredictably aggressive to strangers and dogs. She had bitten and was terrified of going outside at all. If a stranger got in her path she would have 100% attacked them and probably killed a dog if it crossed her.

Hours and thousands of £ spent on training and behaviourists and vets/medication.

We had a house like Fort Knox incase someone came in or left a door open and she got out. Didn’t have visitors for years. Couldn’t have a holiday or take the kids on a nice day out because nobody could help with her. My own gran couldn’t visit her great grandkids because the dog was too dangerous.

A dog like that isn’t well mentally. I didn’t see it as putting to sleep a healthy dog.

If anyone has a terrible opinion of me they can shove it until they have lived that.

Youll get loads of do gooders suggesting you send them to a rescue. Firstly, what rescue, places are bursting. Secondly, if it was that easy why aren’t they offering to take the burden themselves (probably because they haven’t a clue!) and thirdly sending a stranger and dog aggressive dog to a kennels is probably the worst thing you can do for them. I couldn’t have lived with myself if my dog injured someone because I decided to rehome, I could control her to the point she was ‘safe’ but you can’t control anything once the dog is away from you.

My dog was euthanised at home, where she felt safe, with the one person she adored more than anything. Dogs have no concept of tomorrow and I know she was treated better than a lot of dogs are despite her life being short. I’m glad I gave her that regardless of what someone else thinks.

GSD20 I agree with so many of your points, and I'm sorry that was your experience.

This is just so wrong! Spaniels are not born aggressive. They are born intelligent, sociable and energetic, with needs that any responsible owner must meet. This poor dog had behavioural problems because it was horribly neglected. It could certainly have been rehomed with someone responsible and caring who actually knows about dogs, and had a long and happy life. There really should be a licence for dog ownership to avoid awful situations like this.

I’m sorry @HollyNightingale but as someone with a degree in canine behaviour that’s complete rubbish. It just shows a lack of understanding on how behaviour actually works.

Behaviour is hugely influenced by genetics and early experience. If the dam had a stressful pregnancy for example this has been shown to influence the litter in utero. If a litter pre 8 weeks hasn’t had the correct socialisation then there’s a good chance the puppies will have problems before a new owner even gets their hands on one. If the dam was nervous or aggressive then it’s a good chance her behaviour influenced the puppies before this age too, since everything they learned pre weaning was learnt from her. Genetically, behavioural traits can be inherited, how else would we shape dogs into breeds and behaviours we want?

Puppies aren’t clean slates, they are individual beings with personalities just like us. Not all spaniels are happy go lucky. There’s actually a huge amount, more so than other breeds in my experience, that are extremely nervous (not abused, from good loving families) Resource guarding is also very common and something I see a lot in spaniels.

Your first sentence in the final paragraph is 100% the most intelligent thing I have seen on mumsnet about puppies.

It’s why so many (responsible) breeders steer buyers towards particular pups in a litter - because all puppies are different.

OP, I'm so sorry you're going through this. You may find the Losing Lulu website and facebook group helpful.

I did this years ago after two years of trying everything. Medication, behaviourists, got another dog as a companion. The dog terrorised Dh as well as biting numerous other people. Thankfully it was a tiny dog and he couldn’t bite through jeans but he hurt. He ripped dh’s eyebrow half off one day and that was the final straw. The dog was constantly stressed and I certainly think pts was the kinder option.

And I totally agree puppies aren’t clean slates. My bil always said there was something mentally not right with my dog. He said if people can have stuff like personality disorders due to a chemical imbalance maybe dogs can too.

Our family had to when I was young. The vet said he had a hip condition that could not be fixed. Even with the best care and pain control, the dog bit my cousin who was about seven and just standing there. Not badly, but once a deliberate human bite has occurred, it's kinder for everyone to let the dog go peacefully.

GSD20
But I didn’t say dogs are born a ‘blank slate’, did I? I’ve got a biology degree as it happens, I understand genetics. Spaniels are traditionally working dogs and have been bred for their intelligence, loyalty and excellent temperament. Aggression is a natural part of any dog’s responses to feeling under threat. But with appropriate socialisation, care and training, there’s no reason why any dog should learn to use aggression inappropriately. Your flawed argument just gives any irresponsible person (not including the OP in this by the way) supposed justification to get a dog without due consideration, not bother to look after it properly, then when they don’t like the outcome, just kill the poor thing and blame its ‘genes’. Ridiculous.

We did.

Took on a cross of two working breeds who had spent the first 6 months of life living in a tower block flat, which she rarely left.

Young owner was a first time dog owner & fancied himself as a bit of a 'gangsta' & I suspect had done some amateur bite training ( the dog spent the first 2 weeks hanging off my arm and/or clothing) but apparently not any other sort of training, even house.

Dog was a bright, affectionate dog with us, but an utter monster around strangers, nervous of any new situations & couldn't be offlead so we spent a lot of time hiring enclosed fields to provide her with places she could run freely & unmuzzled.

We've rehabbed human aggro dogs in the past but this poor dog was wired wrong, backyard bred from some 'girlfriend's mother's auntie's postman' scenario.

People in the breed know they can be challenging, & often recommended aversives but I knew my dog, they would have suppressed her behaviour possibly, but her emotional state would have been one of even higher fear & anxiety.

We hired a good behaviourist & he did make some difference but she was still a risk, but we then had a management error & she bit a friend's arm, I wasn't there but my daughter said the dog just casually walked up to him, wagging her tail, & then grabbed him.

We talked to our vet at great length (vets were a challenge & she required sedation for even routine visits) & made the decision that her QOL was just not enough with how limited it had to be & no matter how well you manage things unless you're a hermit living in Fort Knox it's never infallible.

I was, & still am, devastated, still have nightmares & am saddened that 3 years of work couldn't fix her, because to me, in spite of her many issues, she was still a lovely dog.

Well as someone working with dogs in a veterinary and behavioural capacity I can assure you I have seen many hundreds of dogs that have not been abused who are aggressive. Including spaniels (they actually make up a high proportion of bite cases I’ve dealt with)

Not every dog with issues has had bad experiences either.

Yes, humans are mostly always to blame. But not always. Regardless of that nobody should feel pressure to keep a dog they feel is dangerous and there’s no way I personally would pass one on.

But how do you then explain dogs that have been horrifically abused, undersocialised & neglected who go on to become surprisingly well rounded & don't resort to aggro at the least sign of a perceived threat?

IMO the abnormal 'normal' for 2 years has had a catlyst effect on dogs- a combination of a lot of inexperienced & unprepared people buying any available dog because they're bored, lonely or want to entertain the kids, plus a big dose of far too many equally idiotic owners jumping on the breeding bandwagon using dogs that just shouldn't ever have been allowed to reproduce to meet that demand.

A recipe for disaster which ultimately has ended up being a really shitty deal for far too many dogs.