Any golden retriever families who can advise before I get a puppy?

[wildery]

Hello all, first-time potential dog owner here (DP has had dogs before). After a few years of waiting and planning, we've decided to go for it and have settled on a golden retriever. Now looking at pups and researching their family lines. Is an elbow score of 2 anything to be concerned about, and is an inbreeding coefficient of 14% not ideal? Anything else I should particularly be aware of. Thanks in advance for any help!

I can't remember the numbers so can't comment - I'm sure someone more knowlegeable will advise you on that! However, our pup had excellent scores for everything and came with all of her papers etc, but has had cancer and currently a spinal degenerative condition - so even perfect scores don't stop your goldie having issues. She's the only one of the litter to have had health issues...so we were just very unlucky I think.

She's 10 in the autumn and is the best, most wonderful dog - she's not been easy - the gun dog trainer I took her to at 6 months said he'd never met such a wilful puppy - but we live with her foibles (and she with ours!) and wouldn't have changed anything for the world. Good luck!

Why the hell would anyone think breeding from a dog with an elbow score of 2 is a good thing? They are scored 0-3, and breeding from anything other than 0 (ie, normal - everything else is showing arthritis) is not recommended.

They mault continually! Great blond clumps everywhere however much they are brushed.
If you are house proud you will be hoovering twice a day..
Consider training dpup to stay downstairs and definitely off furniture.
l grew up with a lovely golden, who lived until the great age of 18….. the gentlest most lovely dog although he needed a couple of hours of off lead exercise daily.
We were brushed off outside before school daily to remove said blond clumps of hair.
Good luck!

The breed average (which can be found on the KC website) is 7.4% for a coefficient inbreeding, so yes 14% is way too high. HOWEVER, don't be wedded to that. 14 is much too high. But mine has a score of 10% - but his hip and elbow scores are superb, so I was prepared to compromise.

The KC website also shows a sliding scale of what is 'good' and 'bad' on hip/elbow scores (they should have both done as a minimum). You can also have a look at the bitches/sires estimated breeding values for potential pups.

https://www.southerngoldenretriever.com/health1/#breedstandard - the link explains the breed standard including scores etc. But PP is correct, an elbow score of 2 is not great.

A good breeder should also have their bitches heart and eyes tested (at least in my opinion)

In terms of things to be aware of, OP...and specifically goldens (I've copied some of the below from another thread earlier). I'm sure you're aware, but I cannot flag enough the below:

• Golden's (and mongrels bred from them) are HIGH energy. They need a good 1-2hours a day. Any less than that is cruel. That is in cold and warm weather (in summer you have to be up early). If you cannot provide this, they will destroy your house and your sanity...
• Their coats need consistent maintenance (2-3 times grooming a week)
• They are mouthy and when they are puppies (up to 18 months) their mouthing can, on occasion, border on aggressive as they do not know their own strength (they're big puppies - mine was 12KG at 12 weeks)
• They are NOT good with young children. They stay puppy like (as larger breeds do) for up to 2 years and routinely knock young children over. Once they are adults, they can be. But up until then, they are not - and they do need constant supervision (as any dog does).
• They are expensive both in terms of purchasing (reputably - a pedigree golden is anywhere between £2-£3K, and non-reputably) and in terms of maintenance (grooming, toys, flea treatment, insurance, wormer, feeding)
• They come with a variety of health issues (cancer, dysplasia) all of which are expensive to treat (£10s of thousands over a lifetime in a bad case) and ongoing issues.

That being said, despite all those 'cons' - I wouldn't be without one. My Golden is 15 months and he is already the best dog I have ever had. But it takes a lot of time/energy. They truly are amongst the worst puppies I have EVER encountered (and I've had spaniels and GSDs...both of which are v. high maintenance) and you have to go into it with your eyes open.

I'd also speak to several breeders before you choose one to go with. Be prepared to view a couple of litters (please don't just blindly go with the first litter you see). Getting the right dog takes time and patience.

I've got Labs but much the same in terms of health testing. Elbows should be 0:0. Also DNA testing of both parents for the nasty conditions that can appear, progressive retinal atrophy for example (a clear eye certificate from an eye iexamination is almost useless as most dogs are bred from long before the condition is apparent).

It’s funny you say they are hard puppies.

I’m on my 4th GR pup in my life. Compared to family and friends who have had lots of other breeds, they are a doddle.

I posted last week worrying about my new pup who didn’t settle immediately into a sleeping area like the others did. it took her 4 days to settle in, I wasn’t used to that with golden retrievers, they are so chilled and easy going!

I have always had them with young children (I have large age gaps!) and they have always been fantastic, even as puppies. The breeder we have got our last two from have children/grandchildren around the puppies constantly, and don’t let the pups leave until 11/12 weeks so they are very used to them from the start.

“Calm” and “drop” are the first commands I teach and are the most important around children. But if course, constant supervision is needed. It’s just a lot of constant training which they love.

We have had her ten days now, she is used to a crate, hops in there for naps, no toilet accidents, is picking up training so fast and is so chilled out - just like all my others were. I can’t wait until she is bigger for all the long walks.

I am a canine behaviour obsessive dog mum, and this is one video I must have watched about 20 times!

It was recommended to me by a behaviourist-as to how a bitch makes her puppies calm down before she'll attend to them. And every time I doubt how my training is going, I refer back to 'canine mum'.
GR mum is not backwards coming forwards, (hear that growl!) she doesn't laugh at cute, cheeky, puppy behaviour, and knows how to set boundaries.
Enjoy-and enjoy your pup 😁🐾

Interesting - I’m on my third golden and have had a very different experience!

I always give mine three walks a day but they don’t need hours at all and are not high energy - they’ve always been mostly asleep in the day.

Also always been gentle with children once out of the puppy stage.

None of mine have ever had health issues either fingers crossed (bar needing anal glands emptying sometimes!)

As an aside, I am surprised that COI is 7.4% for a breed that is common (about 11k puppies registered per year)

I own a vulnerable native breed (only about 100 pups registered a year) and the average COI is 7.3% (my dog is lower than that)

Hmm, I don't fully agree with the list. I have 2 Golden girls and know many others due to a group I belong to. I think it very much depends on the line they come from as to the level of energy they have.

One of mine is higher energy than the other, but I'd say they were much lower energy than the labs, collies and spaniels that we've previously had in our family.

One of ours was a chewy puppy, this went on for ages and she did some damage to furniture. But they were amazing puppies with ours and other children, are renowned as a breed for this.

As a breed they are utterly gorgeous, loyal, gentle, loving, great company. I like many breeds of dog but can't imagine owning anything other than a Goldie now.

You should only consider a 0 and look at the scores of grandparents as well.

And get the best vacuum cleaner in the world.

Don't worry about training - Goldies really are very easy to train.
We had two together, miss them terribly even now. Can't fault the breed for temperament and superb as family pets for an active family.

yes, none of the three I have had previously have been high energy. They all enjoyed long walks, but equally, they weren’t chomping at the bit to get out. They were all happy just to sit and snuggle or sleep.

One was renowned for stopping for a little lay down half way through our regular forest walks and refuse to move for 15 mins. I used to get a lot of, “oh, is she old?” From walkers that didn’t know us, they used to laugh when I said she was 2, just very lazy 🤣 The ones that did know us would roll their eyes and laugh.

None of the three I had previously had any major health problems either. Two lived until 15, one until 17. One had arthritis in the last year of life, both had cataracts from age 14/15. Two were PTS after sudden strokes that left them immobile on the rear legs, and the 17 year old went to sleep one evening and never woke up.

I’ve seen that clip too @abracadabra1980 it’s a good lesson on training and making pups calm before attention. It’s the first thing I train, although the breeder we use doesn’t let pups go until 12 week so they get another month with their take no shit dog mums to learn more! (She made an exception for me this time and gave me a pup at 11 weeks as she knew me so we would have the easter hols to settle her before school runs).

You don't really want a COI above 5%. GRs often die of cancer, which is possibly related to their level of inbreeding.

Friends had a GR puppy a few years back. She was a chilled doddle compared to the working line hunt-point-retrieve breed we had at the time.

Our Goldie was amazing. She grew up with three kids who loved to play with her. She was always up for a game. She had brain cancer and died aged 12. Downsides to having her included costs of food, toys, and vets bills. Please be aware that pet fees at the vets have risen considerably. You’re lucky to get out from the vets with a bill under £100 these days.

She was very hairy, there was always fur everywhere. So lots of grooming needed. She needed two long walks every day, rain or shine. She loved water, the muddier the better, so be prepared for your dog to come home black rather than golden.

She was a scavenger. She stole a lot of things, including a sandwich from some people having a picnic, a cauliflower at home, she stole my son’s sandwiches from his rucksack, she stole a box of chocolates, she ate cow poo and vomited in the back of the car. By god how we loved her!

That’s the issue though. Just because you’ve had a few that aren’t, doesn’t mean they all aren’t. People read things like that and assume that they’ll get a low energy one…and that’s just not the breed.

It’s like saying all cockers are highly strung. They’re not. BUT if you get one that is then you’re in for a rough time. Its better to be realistic about it then be a tad blasé and have people ending up with dogs they’re not equipped to own.

That might come across as a bit sharp, and I don’t mean to be (it’s early). But there’s been to many people recently posting about their low energy collie/GSd/Golden and it is driving me bonkers. Ditto with people who say show/working lines make loads of difference - a dog is still a dog. If we say things like ‘my golden is low energy’ the average twit thinks you mean thirty minutes once a day - and if that is true, then that’s cruel to the dog. Even a pug needs more than that. But you likely don’t. You mean 1-2hours which isn’t low energy.

But equally just because you’ve had one that is higher energy it doesn’t mean they’re all like that?

I agree that all dogs need walking several times a day. But if someone is not aware enough to realise that I’m not sure much is going to make them realise…

Quite right. But better to over state the risks than understate it!

That being said you are 100% correct that if someone doesn’t realise then nothing will make them realise…

I don’t know about scores but personally I would also focus on temperament of the breeder lines and offspring as much and as best you can.

Mine is 9 months, currently trying to (re-)train him not to pull on the lead like a husky pulling a sled and he digs up the lawn if we take our eyes off him for more than a millisecond. Has chewed a lot of things including rugs, doors, shoes etc. and humps his teddies enthusiastically. And he's the size of a small elephant already.

But doesn't shed almost at all, hasn't needed to be professionally groomed yet, loves a bath, and the dirt falls off him somehow when he's mucky. And he is amazing with the kids though mine are older (age 10+). Best dog ever so far.

You need to know about scores though if you are buying a GR or Lab as it’s cruel if unscrupulous breeders keep breeding puppies that are going to suffer health issues early in life because people keep buying them.

Temperament is also important of course.

This fb group can point you at good breeder and upcoming litters. We sourced our girl from here. They vet the breeders.

www.facebook.com/share/7h1cbk5t6eobNbhs/?mibextid=K35XfP

Fair warning though, when they're puppies they definitely earn their land shark reputation!

hi @Twiglets1 Yes I completely agree with you, I just meant I don’t know about the specifics myself, best to leave to those that have better knowledge than me to comment on that aspect!

If you value the contents of your home I would rethink, my friends' goldies destroyed their house as puppies, destroyed the garden too. I got my dog the same week as her first goldie and the difference was stark, oh and mine was actually trainable (collie) both need similar exercise levels. She's always been amazed that he actually does what he's told and has done from 12 weeks old, they had a very expensive 1:1 trainer too whereas we did group lessons

Thanks everyone for your advice, all really helpful. I've just joined that FB group, thanks! That's exactly what I'm looking for. And all noted on the hair, and chewy puppies.