Talk to me about gun dog training

[Doodledangle]

At what stage is a dog ready to progress to gun dog training and how do I know if mine would be suitable (or whether agility might be better)? For example, do they need rock solid recall/obedience or is that part of the training?

He's a rescue miniature poodle 15 months who came with a few bad habits but eager to learn/please, enjoys at home training (basic commands, scent games etc) and recently completed a 6 week 'puppy training' class. Novice owner so like structure & guidance. I'm looking to develop & enhance his training, help us bond and do something fun together plus he's so much calmer after plenty of mental stimulation.

Poodles are really well suited to agility.
I would advise joining the agilitynet group on Facebook and asking for recommendations for a club in your area.

I would find a local agility group or class and go along a few times, see how you both like it. That’s how I got into agility with my Spaniels years ago and will be again once my pup is old enough. I only used to do it for fun/dog stimulation not competitions as one of my spaniels had a thing for rabbit droppings in the neighbouring field 🙈🤣. Having done gundog training classes with that spaniel too, agility every time unless working your dog for that purpose.

Ah ok both saying agility will see if there’s anything around my area. How obedient do they need to be to start beginner agility? When I train at home without distractions he’s brilliant but add other dogs or distractions & I might as well not be speaking so clearly a way off!

Poodles were bred for gun work. Look for a gun dog trainer. Even if you don't then go on to shoot with yours the training will set the dog up for life.
Gun dog work is better for dogs than agility training. It's better focussed and better brain work.
Another good training to keep the brain active would be sniffer dog training - customs, money, drugs, explosives etc but this can be expensive.

A good gun dog trainer will also help you with the focus you and your dog both need so he will become less distracted in the field.

Find your local gundog club, give them a ring and see what they say. Most counties or regions have them. Mine is £8 a year to join and the training courses were something like £30 for six mornings (not hours). I struck lucky with my spaniel and had three months of weekly one to one with one of the instructors for a bottle of Talisker. When he had finished with us I felt I could train him to do anything.

How obedient do they need to be to start beginner agility?

If your dog can do a wait & come you're off to a good start. Being ok off lead and not bothered by other dogs is a plus, but not essential as this will improve with training.

If you can reward with a toy rather than treats, again better. Some clubs aren't keen on treats as you are likely to drop some and make training that little bit harder for the next dog.

My dog club will have you attend obedience classes as part of the agility which helps and reinforces the dog - handler relationship.

I don't know anything about gun dog training, but we do have one in our club that does both, agility and gun dog training. So you can try and see what you prefer... or do both.

Just one word of warning: doggy sports are very addictive!

Start as soon as you can in a beginner class, at our training the dogs don't mix or play, that's been one of the most beneficial parts of it for our dog. I can now recall her, pop her on the lead and heel past other dogs and she isn't phased by being in a group and having to focus on a task because she knows that she has a job to do 😊

You don't see many poodles out working on shoots, but IME gundog work is very good for a dog's brain and general obedience.

From my experience, the gundog world is rather more old-fashioned, and you may struggle to find a trainer who uses modern positive reinforcement style training, and who will be happy to take on a poodle (even though they are bred for gundog work!), but you may be lucky- things are slowly improving! Also, I think some gundog competitions may not consider your poodle as a recognised gundog breed so they wouldn't be eligible? Agility is far more open and accepting of different breeds, but the 2 sports are very different - depends what you would enjoy most with your dog? Agility is focused on making everything fun for the dog (and therefore encouraging them to want to do it, as it isn't 'natural' behaviour), but gundog work is more reliant on the dogs innate abilities and controling/shaping their natural behaviours (eg retrieving/marking). Scentwork may be a good option - great for using the dogs brain and abilities?

Have you thought about rally? It's good for general obedience and is a lot calmer than agility!

My puppy started gundog training around 6 months. Working mainly on obedience, retrieve and recall to begin with. It was great for her

I run agility classes and we have a separate fenced area with the equipment in, and have one at a time while the others wait outside.
As has already been said, a good wait and a recall is needed.

Getting distracted by other dogs depends on the extent to which this is happening.
Briefly distracted and then back to you is fine.
Obsessed with other dogs to the point where they are not interested you is not going to work well.
Definitely give it a try, but do ask for recommendations on the Facebook group I mentioned above. There are good and bad out there and whether you plan to compete or not, you should definitely go somewhere that teaches everything correctly.
The first few lessons should be learning directional cues, sending the dog around a cone, straight tunnels, and learning to run between the jump wings with the pole on the lowest height, or even no pole at all.

Is he from a working line? The difference is remarkable, I tried it with my show line HPR and apart from general obedience and behaviour, we couldn’t get the hang of the gun dog bits like tug and chasing the lure.

Gundog trainers tend not to get dogs to play tug. I have two working line HPRs (work one, plan to work the second when she finally grows up a bit) and one will not play tug with me, doesn't understand it.

They have never chased a lure, either. I've only ever seen a lure used with a collie puppy.

The big thing with an HPR is whether they will hunt - cover the ground and use the wind properly. That is mostly instinctive, but you need obedience at a distance. And it's helpful if they retrieve.

I guess YMMV

What I was trying to say (badly!) was that you might find your HPR will do HPR things in an appropriate environment. Playing tug and being keen to follow a lure are not attributes that have been selected for. Though I could imagine a lure being used to steady a dog to moving prey, I've never seen it done.

But working the wind, working at distance from the handler, holding a point and retrieving all have been, and working dog breeders really focus on keeping those traits.

I suppose what I'm saying is maybe give it another go if you fancy it, with a different trainer or with an HPR group.