Find the right puppy

[Rzim]

Is it a problem when the owner owns both the mum and dad of the pups?

Are the mum and dad brother and sister?

No

Thank you x

Depends how many litters they have a year. The inbreeding coefficient. What they do with the mother and father when they're no longer able to use them to breed from. Dogs being bred from have a viable period. After that many just dump them.

TBH, I've never known a good breeder own both mum and dad. Maybe 2-3 bitches (usually Grandma, mother, daughter) but not a both parents. If only because keeping a boy and a bitch in heat separate is a fucking nightmare. Usually means the dogs are either chronically under walked, or the bitch is overbred from.

Thx will investigate!

Going to see the mum and dad dogs - what am I looking for? Friendly bitch? Any top tips would be great my first and only dog was through a friend so this is all new to me! Thx

You need to see the licence, health test evidence and have a good chat with the breeder about what you are expecting and answer their questions too before even seeing any puppies.

It's easy to fall in love with a cute fluffy face.

And to answer the original question - no it doesn't matter as long as they are not closely related.

Agreed.

Don't even go and see the puppies until you have had a proper phone call with a breeder. You don't want to get there and buy a puppy that is going to be sick it's entire life.

My latest dog, I was asked:

• Photos of my house and garden and a video of the garden (proof I could provide for a large dog - it's harder to force a video).
• Payslip (proof I could afford a dog)
• Experience with the breed/other dogs
• What other animals I had. When I said dogs she had to see proof they had insurance.
• If I had kids
• If I would castrate a dog
• What my work pattern was like
• If my work pattern changed did I have someone available to look after him

In return I asked:

• Evidence of parents health tests
• Photos of the pups/mother
• How many litters the breeder had a year (I also checked online to confirm she wasn't lying)
• Why she picked the stud she did
• What had plans were for the bitch after she could no longer breed (she keeps them - she has mum, grandma and great-grandma!)
• How she would socialise (including things like the hoover/people coming into the house etc) the pups before they were picked up
• What health test she's would get done on the dogs (including heart tests)
• Will the puppies have had a vaccine/worms before being sent home
• Would she take the puppy back if something awful happened and I was no longer able to provide for him/her

That was all via phone, then followed up with proof on both sides via email (I sent my proof first - she confirmed she was happy for me to have a puppy and sent her proof back via email).

She had 9 pups and apparently 30 candidates (hard to verify, but I wouldn't be surprised). She vetted us thoroughly. I wouldn't use another breeder for a the same breed again after her tbh. She was excellent.

Many thx super helpful - the breeder I will be going to meet hasn't had the pups yet so will be a good opportunity to get a feel before I fall in love with a puppy!!

Or you could adopt one of the millions of beautiful dogs dumped by their feckless, shallow owners when the novelty of a "lockdown fur baby" wore off.

I work in a dog rescue and even I’m sick of these sorts of comments.

Can we not have a single thread about puppies without someone trotting this tired old line out?

Rescues aren't for everyone. And people who buy responsibly from good breeders aren't the reason rescues are struggling either.

I have two pedigree dogs both from reputable breeders. The old dog a fairly common breed the breeder didn’t own the stud dog but owned mother grandmother and sister. I completed a 5 page form when applying for a puppy including photos of my garden and of my previous dogs and what happened to them. I was interviewed twice once before the puppies were born and once when I met the puppy at 4 weeks. No money changed hand until I picked him up at 8 weeks either of us could change our minds at any time. She went into great lengths about the necessary breed health checks proudly showing me the results of both the dog and bitch. She showed me photos of the dog explained to me why she chose him and gave me his owners details so that I could talk to them/meet him if I wished. His litter mate won the utility group at Crufts and my dog who’s slight too tall is a happy well adjusted dog who’s never had a days illness. I drove 200+ miles to get him and I’ve never regretted it. My young dog is a vulnerable native breed he is a failed show dog (just not quite good enough to win at the highest level) but the breeder does own a dog and a few bitches although he no longer owns my dogs sire. I suspect when it’s a rare breed it’s more common for reputable breeders of which there are only a very small number in comparison with say labradors. Rare breeds often seem to be imported/exported to widen the gene pool.
I would always recommend going through the specific breed club for your chosen breed, be it regional or national, most clubs have secretaries who know of upcoming and available litters, members are likely to be dedicated to the breed know all the necessary health tests required and also be keen to produce good examples.

@devilshands is spot on

if you're interested in getting information on any pedigree breed please visit

www.champdogs.co.uk/?classic_site=1

This is the best website for responsible breeders who health test and shows you which tests have been done, and a bit more about the breeder than the KC website (which in my experience doesn't guarantee healthy puppies whatsoever, just because they are KC registered). Health testing is vital these days to give your pup the best start.
Also, please avoid Facebook, FreeAds, Gumtree & Pets4Homes like the plague-it's full of puppy farmers who know little about their dogs bloodlines.

Absolutely - I will only buy through Kennel Club

All very good advice many thx x

@Rzim I think the point being made is do not blindly go on KC information. There are some very unethical and poorly thought out puppies and matings on there

B

Owning both parents isn’t a positive, whether it’s a problem or not depends on where your line is for a good breeder - because it’s not a well planned thought out litter bred with a purpose, it’s someone breeding just because they can or to make money.

On a practical level, how likely are they to be able to help you if you have any issues with the puppy and how likely are they to take it back if needed?

and assuming they’ve done relevant health testing, how knowledgeable are they about other issues in the breed to avoid those? Cockers have an issue with digestive problems like IBD, rotties with allergies, golden retrievers with resource guarding... that’s just the ones I’m aware of btw, there will be others for other breeds.

do they know enough about confirmation to avoid creating issues there? I’ve known of someone breeding Akitas where the puppies all ended up with knee problems because the parents were medically fine, but, both had back legs that were slightly too straight.

It’s good to know as much as possible about the breed and breed standard. Check out Crufts on you tube regarding the breeds being shown, they will highlight what the underlying bone structure should be.
Besides immunizations, microchiping and worming the breeder shouldn’t be willing to part with the puppies too early.
You want the kennel to be clean and odor free. Food bowls clean, bedding in good order.

Many thx - feel like a newbie despite having had my old dog for 13 years! X

You need to know what issues that breed can have and whether the breeder has done specialist tests to rule them out.
KC just means pedigree. It’s no mark of quality or ethics.
If the breeder has chosen this pairing carefully that’s fine. If it’s just convenience or an “accident” (rubbish it’s a money making scheme) then avoid.
They should ask you about your lifestyle and what you can offer a dog. Expect to sign a contract.

My youngest dog came from a breeder who owned both the parents, but they were not closely related and they were chosen because they complimented each other. He doesn't always use his own sire, he chooses what will compliment the bitch.
They have 7 of the same breed ranging from 2 years to about 14 and they are very much part of the family. They are there for life.
Fully health tested and bred to standard.
I was able to get a puppy from this breeder as I was recommended to him through a mutual friend. I wanted one of his dogs as I have a friend who has 3 from him over a period of 10 years, he doesn't breed often. I knew he bred to standard with appropriate health testing and that his dogs have a good work ethic, as well as looking like they should.
The result of this is I have my dream dog. He is stunning, temperament is 100%, he has done well in the show ring, crufts qualified for life, and is an amazing agility dog.
Well worth traveling from Oxford to Norfolk twice for!
Photos taken at the end of his first agility year.
He's an absolute star 🌟

I wouldn't worry about a licence to be honest. Having a licence used to be a good way of knowing that someone was bulk breeding but now everyone who breeds is supposed to have one. My own view is that plenty of unlicensed breeders who produce a litter every few years are a lot better than some licensed breeders who churn out endless puppies with no health tests.

Things I'd look for:
Does the breeder check that their breed (or line - show and working lines can be very different) will be a good fit for you?
Are relevant health tests done? If you don't plan to breed, one parent being tested for the simple recessives is enough, but in breeds prone to hip dysplasia you'd want good results for both.
What is the coefficient of inbreeding (COI)? Ideally you want one under 5%. Higher COIs are closely correlated with increased genetic issues, more allergies etc.
What is the set up? Are the puppies familiar with daily life in the home and not kept in a barn down the end of the garden? IMO being kennelled part of the time isn't a problem, but I have working line dogs where kennelling is not unusual.
What does the breeder do in the way of socialisation? Worming? Purchase contract? Checking you out?

I think you've got a lot of good advice here. Our last dog was from a breeder with mum and dad. I think you'd have to get a feel for them as breeders and in and of itself, it's not bad. We have an Akita and the breeder basically interviewed us and would only allow us the dog if he was happy with the responses. After owning for 6 years, I see why he did that now. We've had difficult breeds but this was something else. To be honest, I think all of them should act that way. It's a huge responsibility that most people aren't up to or capable of.

Thank you all brilliant advice x