Puppy Survival Thread for New and Old Pups - Spring is around the corner!

[Lougle]

A thread for puppy owners to share their ups and downs as we head into Spring. We're not just here for the idyllic moments. We've all had a cry at some point!

All posters welcome - just dive in.

The previous thread is here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_doghouse/4945764-puppy-survival-thread-for-old-and-new-pups-heading-into-winter?page=1

@Cavalierchaos walks are super stimulating, there are a million different sights and smells for them to process on their first walks, pup sounds over stimulated to me. Is he getting enough sleep? I'd persist with the crate, giving him something to chew might help him relax (I still swear by benebone, they do puppy versions). Reward calm behaviour... even white noise can help!

@Lougle twelve weeks tomorrow! The internet said its ok, but maybe it's too much for him?

@PointerParty

He gets plenty of time in the crate (I feel like too much) but doesn't spend all that time sleeping (I can hear him moving around or sniffing). He has such a short attention span, I wish I could find something he would chew for a long period of time! I've tried kongs and lickimats (with peanut butter, yoghurt, cheese), lots of different toys, frozen wet towel... The only thing that holds is attention is when he is eating kibble lol.

@Cavalierchaos yep kongs, lick mats etc kept my older dog busy for about 3 minutes, she was very prone to over stimulation and then lunging and nipping at me when it was all too much. Longer lasting chews like the benebone were really good for her. She also got more gross chews like beef pizzle, trachea etc. How much time does he spend sleeping do you think?

Scatter some kibble in cardboard box, tape it up. Put it inside a bigger cardboard box, scatter in more kibble, tape that one up too. Hand it to pup and let him shred the boxes to get at the kibble. Dissecting/shredding things is also good for calming them down

@Cavalierchaos Do you do training with him? We use all of Hazel's food for training. She doesn't get fed from a bowl at all.

Some really interesting comments and certainly food for thought.
12 wk old little Airedale is only in the kennel when we leave the home, on three occasions we’ve taken him in the car and so far that’s gone well with the pup settling nicely tethered in the back seat. He has tolerated the evening walk around the block (20-30 minutes) which is a slow pace thanks to older Airedale. This am (now that he’s had tick medicine) with a leash he accompanied the older two into the back woods trail, slow gentle slope but again 20-30 minutes.
no sign of being over stressed or stimulated. but I’ll admit I might not recognize subtle signs vs normal exploration and development.
Today at the end of the trail walk three dogs who he’s met at the fence came to him (they were off lead) and a very proud little fellow sat very nicely as they sniffed him.
Our property backs onto a section of crown land that neighbors use for dog walks. So all the neighbors and their dogs have met Fin through the fence.

@CurlsnSunshinetime4tea ah brilliant! Sounds like pup is doing really well! Getting easily overstimulated is really down to the individual dog's temperament (and the breed to an extent). I've got one that is like that and one that isn't

@PointerParty I wish I could keep my pup busy for 3 minutes! He jumps from this to that, rarely spending more than 10 seconds on each. I would like to try him on those proper animal chews, maybe those will keep his attention a few seconds longer haha. He's in the crate for about 19/20 hours a day, and I would guess he sleeps maybe half or three quarters of that time? I have no idea really, often when he's quiet I will have a peek under the blanket and he's just sat there looking at me! I've thought about putting a camera inside so I can see without disturbing him.
That's a good idea for the kibble! I will try that. Bet he gives up straight away tho, honestly his attention span is like a gnat.

@Lougle yes I do training using either his kibble or other treats. I don't put his kibble in the bowl, I scatter it all over the room for him to scavenge! He then goes and hoovers it all up.

@Cavalierchaos are you doing training with your pup? 20 hours in a crate is a long time?

@Cavalierchaos
That is a very very long time in a crate,
Pup should be out a lot longer than that, training, sniff work, walks?

That really is far too long for him to be in a crate. He should be out of it learning about you and the world, far more hours than he is inside it. He will be difficult to train being cooped up alone for so long. When he comes out, it will be so exciting that it will compromise his ability to concentrate. Dog are social animals, they shouldn’t be alone for long periods.

@Cavalierchaos Is pup 11 weeks? At that age sleeping for 18-20hrs is considered normal, so it sounds like he is getting plenty of sleep. I crate my dogs for sleep at night and if I'm out, but otherwise they're either gated into the kitchen/dining room or in the garden when we're at home. Maybe keeping him in a bigger space with a stair gate or puppy playpen when he's awake would help?

Oh I feel terrible now. I follow the 2 down 1 up schedule because I've read many times that pups need 18-20 hours of sleep. Mine is 12 weeks old today.
This is a typical day...I don't stick to it exactly, it varies depending on how pup is doing.

7.30 - 8.30 - 1h up
8.30-10.30 sleep
10.30-11.30 1h up
11.30-1.30 sleep
1.30-2.30 1h up
2.30-4.30 sleep
4.30 -5.30 1h up
5.30-7.30 sleep
7.30-8.30 1h up
8.30 -10.30 sleep
10.30-11.00 30mins up
11.00-7.30 sleep
5h 30 mins awake = 18h 30m asleep

When he's up, we play, do training, eat, go on walks (2x 15 minute walks a day, plus me just carrying him around outside), or if pup is sleepy and not bitey then we have a cuddle.

Is this a bad routine?

@Cavalierchaos when you say sleep, is this in the crate? Does he go in happily? I understand about the sleep, we never managed this amount and did not use a crate (we did have a large pen) but just settled her in and around the kitchen diner ( which was her area, and mine, for months!). It seems a bit regimented to me, we did allow more freedom and she sleeps in our bedroom.

@Cavalierchaos my lab puppy always went in her crate for bed at set times, and still does. She’s never once whined or refused, she’s now 8 months old and still does a quick nap in the morning and two longer naps during the day. I don’t know if she sleeps or if she just chills in there but she has her chewies and her other toys. She quite often will stay in there with the door open once I open her crate. I wfh so this has been necessary. She is a very busy little dog and she doesn’t really ‘settle’ during the day unless in the crate. As she is getting older, she’s getting a bit better at taking herself off to the window and just chilling there for a bit so I hope as she continues to mature she’ll have less crate time.

She goes to a dog sitter one day a week and they say she uses their crate, by choice at theirs too.

I’m not an experienced dog owner, this is my first dog, but she is such a happy placid girl and I really don’t think the crate is having a negative impact on her. In contrast, she hated the very expensive and completely wasted pen that we tried, and doesn’t really like to be shut in the kitchen. She gets lots of love and play time and isn’t in the crate as much at weekends. I think you just have to do what works for you all and what is right for your puppy.

picture of her pigeon watching in her favourite spot. (Ignore the Labrador smears all over my windows 🤣)

When Hazel was very little we wanted her to know that 'doing nothing' was the most important skill. So we did have her largely in a pen in DD2's room, which had a crate inside it. We would go into the pen to play with her, train her, etc., and she would sleep in the crate with the door shut. But she adopted her own routine, really.

To be fair, looking back at a post from 11 weeks old, her routine wasn't too dissimilar to @Cavalierchaos , we just had a variety of 2 hour waking spells, one hour waking spells, etc. The one difference is that she had a choice of pen or crate to sleep in, so she'd often sploot upside down in the pen on a towel.

Hi! My pup is nearly 2 so I'm really pushing the boundaries of this thread but popping on to say a routine saved me too. I did 1 hour awake then nap. Fluff pup generally did 1 hour up, 1 hour down. When up she was restricted to back of the house. She generally slept in her crate. Mine loved her crate and I felt very guilty when I took it away completely at 18 months.
A crate isn't forever. At about 5 months she was allowed everywhere however she still self followed the pattern of lots of naps but on any convenient surface and the crate was just at night. At about 9 months we did away with it at night and she has her choice of where to sleep. She usually sleeps like a human with her head on the pillow next to me which we both love.
I will get another puppy at some stage. I'll aim to do the same again but I would be more relaxed about where it sleeps at night earlier.

Just jumping on to tap some of your wisdom hopefully as I'm finding myself feeling a bit stressed!!

I have a 12 almost 13 week old cockerpoo so still a baby, toilet training was going so well week 9-11 and now he just keeps weeing in the house mere seconds after I bring him in. I feel like I don't take my eyes off him but the second I pick up a drink or like, blink! He's weeing.
I'm whipping him outside quick & not making fuss.
Loads of celebration & party time treat if he goes outside. But I just don't know why he's going backwards.

Has this happened for anyone???
I'm taking him out every 30 mins at the moment but still having accidents last 2 days have been really bad 😭

@MamaBanana12 is he weeing outside before you bring him in? When do you do the congratulations/treat? Sometimes, they get used to the fanfare and treat at the end of the pee, and so they do a 'quick pee' to get the treat, then they haven't fully emptied. Perhaps try a more gentle approach and just say 'good' when he pees, and only if you think he's done a proper wee, then treat.

He is sometimes. The book said to make it a party time when he wees. So that's what I did.
But yeah he does 'some' wees outside.
Defo worth trying a less fun treat! He's just standing and sniffing around outside, coming in and then peeing. I've tried being outside 15/20 mins, 10 mins, bringing him in and back out again 15 mins. But then he just does it.

I know it's something I'm doing but I'm just finding it tough to catch up before he's piddled I feel like I need eyes in the back of my eyes 🤣

He had been doing great and had no/very minimal accidents until last few days.

Someone suggested UTI but he's been checked and nothing wrong with him.

Ah, so you need to go back to the beginning, and make sure you only go inside once he's peed. He'll get faster once he realises.

It’s common. They lull you into a false sense of security, then mess with your head. Just keep doing what you are doing. It should pass (no pun intended) in a few weeks!

looks like a good routine to me @Cavalierchaos it's easy to forget how much time they spend sleeping when they're tiny.

@MamaBanana12 we definitely had a couple of little toilet training regressions, just be consistent and it will pass. I would dash over and take pup out when she was mid indoor pee. I remember reading somewhere that no dog is "reliably" toilet trained under 9 months old... as in if you take them somewhere new under that age expect an indoor pee. It will fall into place eventually

My girl came to us toilet trained and never wee’d or pooped in the house, except one night she messed in her crate and there was a couple of days where for absolutely no reason whatsoever she just weed on the floor, it was like she couldn’t even remember what to do to get outside! I think they must all just get a bit of piddle regression sometimes!