Controlling larger dogs - training requirements

[TheWayTheLightFalls]

Musing a bit really. I grew up with large dogs and my ideal would be something absolutely enormous. I have no issue with slobber, personal space etc. But - we were dogsitting this weekend and I got a little taste of how the usually docile and certainly not very large terrier x whippet cross I was walking almost ran me into the road when she spotted a cat. If you have a huge breed presumably it is lots and lots of training to keep them under your control, since they could physically drag you wherever they wanted?

Can anyone give me a clear picture of how much training and at what ages, for a larger dog?

@Wolfiefan and @Leonberger can help you here

I have a golden (14 months) that is 43KG and I am actually trying to get him to put on weight as the vet says he's too thin! And when a vet says a dog is too thin, you know you have an issue. He's approaching hip height on me (I am 5,5)...so, literally, a giant by his breed standard.

I got him at exactly 8 weeks and trained him from day one. Literally the moment I got him home on sit/down/wait/stay/recall/walk to heel. I didn't let him eat from a food bowl for his first month. He got all his food from my hands during training sessions. It means that he associates my hands with food so naturally doesn't want to stray far from me - he walks to heel perfectly and pretty much has done since his first walk.

That being said, he's a Golden so VERY food motivated and it would have been harder with a dog that wasn't. But it does all boil down to training.

I often find that the large/giant breeds are better trained than the smaller ones (likely because of their size)

Never ending!! And careful management. I have wolfhounds. We start loose lead training ASAP. And start as you mean to go on. (A puppy giving a paw can be cute. But a full sized hound clobbering you isn’t so much fun!)
I also use a dogmatic headcollar to ensure easy control if we are somewhere busy.

I adopted a 65kg basically untrained Newfie. Walking to start off with we stayed away from main roads and used a halti. Joined a fairly bog-standard obedience class and went weekly for about 18m until he had his silver KC award. At the beginning he was far and away the worst behaved dog in the class because I wasn’t allowed the halti and he dragged me all over the place, but with consistency we then moved to a halti harness and finally to just a flat “normal” collar and lead because I knew I could refocus him on me immediately if he got distracted before he lunged towards it. He was always a bit of a sod in some ways, but was also better behaved than 90% of the dogs we’d meet out walking.

We adopted 50kg of standard poodle at 1 yr old with all the attitude of a disaffected teenager. His family couldn’t cope with him or walk him. Within a week he was walking in a harness on a loose lead. He had a very obvious penny drop moment when he realised what he was supposed to do on a walk and was utterly delighted with himself. I think he struggled to understand why he was being hauled around and shouted at.

patience and consistency.

our German shepherd joined us aged three. She appeared to be completely untrained on walks. She got the idea very quickly though and needed little training. She’s bright and likes to please.
She will walk on lead without any pulling and will stay at heel off lead or close by if we let her roam.

As someone else said, owners of large dogs generally do more training as there are more expectations on us/our dogs than small dogs. I have worked very hard desensitising my gsd to cars, cats and dogs because, as you say OP, otherwise its dangerous. He's 2 now and brilliant but it has taken training on all walks ( not the whole walk) and a solid 6 month period 1yr-18months when i didnt do walks round my village as he was too difficult, hormonal, reactive (still did rural walks/off lead tho).
Overall, the training - all aspects - has been constant for the first 2 years

With my Beagle/Rott x I am more aware of other people's potential fear.

He has been trained to walk to heel, pushed into my side with his nose at my palm when we pass by people on the street.

I am also selective about where I let him off-lead. I can recall him away from 99.99% of things but being part Beagle means off-lead forest walks are out of the question. If he catches a whiff of an interesting scent, his nose turns on and his ears turn off. He won't run up to anyone. He's unaware of anything other than the scent trail he's following but I am aware that people would be wary of walking past a large, off-lead dog.

He's allowed off-lead in enclosed fields where I can see who is coming on and off the field from all sides and only during quieter times eg when it's raining or dark. I trust him to recall from strange dogs but I don't trust strange dogs to recall from him and even though that would not be my fault I don't want to be responsible for causing someone else fear if they cannot get their dog back before it reaches him.

We have been taken by surprise once. It was raining heavily and I assumed we would have the field ourselves. A pomeranian came rushing onto the field with its owner a few minutes behind. By the time she entered the field, her dog was already halfway to mine. I'd recalled mine but he did pause before coming back. My small dogs have taught him that if he wants to play, he should lay on the ground and show submissiveness. He couldn't recall and flop onto his belly at the same time.

He did come back and immediately flopped onto his back at my feet making it harder for me to clip his harness on and giving the pom time to reach him.

When the pom's owner eventually reached us she was physically shaking and in tears. I had to pick her dog up for her because she was shaking too much to grab it. She was utterly convinced her tiny dog was about to be mauled to death and even though it was her fault I felt terrible for her. I never want to be part of someone feeling that way. It reinforced to me that my dog's size/breed mix is terrifying to some people and it is my responsibility to mitigate this as much as possible.

My leonbergers definitely took so much less training than the GSDs. They all go through a tough adolescent phase so anyone considering needs to be well prepared for 70kg of teenage idiot for a while! I don’t think I’ve ever been dragged though!

I can’t speak for all giants but I generally find Leo’s don’t have a huge drive so it’s harder to motivate them but generally they weren’t hard to train at all.

In terms of time, I attended obedience training twice a week with the latest who is now an adult. He also went to ringcraft class once every couple of weeks. We also did bits of showing to get a few titles, tried our hand at agility and hoopers which was a disaster 😄 I also did lots of walking somewhere and sitting watching the world learning to be calm. But mainly it’s about training on every single walk, every single time. Even now I walk with treats and with dogmatic headcollars as a backup on all of them. It’s not like having poodles that seem be allowed to run riot bothering people, one knock can seriously hurt someone without any malice involved or one retaliation from a dog attacking mine and the other wouldn’t stand a chance. I’m really concious that I never want to put my dogs in that position so I train constantly. There’s no way to physically overpower one so the only power you have is obedience and knowing your dog inside and out!

We never allow anything as puppies that a 80kg bear can’t do. Jumping up etc is just a complete no as is running in the house 😄 Unfortunately for me this also meant playing with strange dogs who I found are easily squashed. I also find other dogs hate them and 99% are very intimidated so that’s something to think about if you live somewhere with lots of off lead out of control dogs.

Overall though, they are the absolute best!!

You start as soon as they leave their mother. Important things first, leave the tricks for later. You need to instill basic manners while they are still small cute and easily forgiven. If you have a dog that you cannot physically overpower you better make damn sure you never have to.

Bite inhibition
Leave/drop it
Come
Wait
Walking on a slack lead or next to you without a lead. Best done very early while they still want to follow you everywhere anyway.
More recall
Bed/settle/lie down

Then stuff like sit, stay, paw, fetch, find etc

Thanks everyone. Really really interesting.

Thank you so much for your post, demonstrating your thoughtful awareness.
Certainly my fear that my small dog will be harmed by a large uncontrolled dog is high. 2 GSs chased my previous 2 pups under the car, I'm so thankful we were still close to it. No recall evident to their owners shouts. Mine (whippet/Bedlingtons) were also knocked off their feet when half grown, by 2 off lead lab crosses, useless owner "they just want to play".. hence from then on my 2 were reactive to black dogs. Also, my parents Airedale was attacked and all but killed by 2 Newfies who dragged their walker across the road and tossed him up in the air, ripping open his belly and biting my dad as he tried to fend them off.
I love dogs, but there seem to be a small percentage of clueless people who spoil it for the rest (of all sizes of dog).
My tactic will be to avoid the busy walks and always be on high alert.
And hope that more owners of big dogs will be like you ☺️

I also have a big dog who some people and other dogs are scared of. (He appears to divide opinion as some are very attracted to him). He is 35kg but he's tall and fluffy. People usually exclaim 'that's a big dog'

I am aware of how people react to him and I am very careful about where and when I let him off lead (only when there's no one around or with dogs we know with permission). I always recall him and put him on a lead if we see a person or dog approaching. I also make him walk to heel and give me eye contact so that people can see he is under control and no threat.

He is a rescue so we didn't have the luxury of training him from a puppy. We did start as soon as we got him and he is pretty good now with recall and loose lead walking. He is friendly to people and other dogs but reactive to cats and very badly to motor bikes which is proving hard to correct. He barks and lunges and it certainly could be dangerous if you were not expecting it. I manage that mostly by avoiding the trigger but sometimes I do fail and then I just have to brace myself. I am trying to counter condition him but not really winning. I can hold him and have never been dragged or pulled over but I would not let friends or relatives walk him for this reason.

Basically (and I did not realise this when I rescued him) you have to be a lot more 'on it' careful and responsible when you have a big dog. I do enjoy walking him but I can't take him just anywhere and I have to actively manage him. People with tiny dogs constantly let them run up, jump up on me or bark and snarl when walking past and often they are chatting, on their phone or otherwise making no attempt to control their dog. If a cockerpoo jumps up it's just muddy trousers but if my big dog jumped up he can put his paws on my shoulders and certainly would knock someone down so I do not take that risk.

Having some equipment helps
Sturdy harness that he can't slip with a handle and front clip
Martingale collar again so he can't slip it
Long line as well as a short lead
Pouch of high value treats and his fluffy toy for distraction

I reckon there are some advantages of bigger
dogs for training though
Mine doesn't really jump up because his nose is conveniently at pocket/ table height so he has no need and doesn't bother
It is easy to slip him treat rewards when training especially loose lead/ walking to heel as he is in the correct position and I don't have to bend down
He has a big food allowance to play with so he can have food in his bowl but still have training treats without putting on weight. I just count it all in his allowance