Working Cocker Puppy - please give me all the tips

[Blackcat31]

Hi, second time owners but first puppy and first spaniel.

We already love walking and running so would be keen to try canicross and also interested in secnt work/agility/flyball as I've heard lots about how important it is to give them a 'job'. I know canicross and anything intense can't be done whilst too young. What's your best tips for getting in to these?

Good general or cocker specific books/videos/websites?

We also need to integrate with two lap cats who haven't previously lived with a dog and chickens!

Lovely dogs but hard work !
I think ours would have been better with a job - he is from a family who go out on the moors daily working on pheasant shoots etc. I sometimes worry he is bored.

Research breeders carefully and make sure you see evidence of health tests (tests not checks) especially for hips etc.
Buy the book The Pet Gundog Puppy by Lez Graham. Even if you don't want to work your dog you need to undertake the prey drive and the natural instincts of your dog.
Once you have read that book then read Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson.
Don't go for parents which have a lot of red in the pedigree on either side because this will usually mean high drive dogs.
Book in for puppy gundog training classes over traditional puppy classes.
They need mental stimulation rather than hours of exercise otherwise you will just end up with a very fit cocker. They are bred to work in the field all day so are hard to tire, instead you need to teach them where the off switch is.
Prone to resource guarding so never ever take anything off them, instead train the retrieve.
They are great dogs IF you put the training in. My current 3 Yr old is a working dog but I put in 400 hours of training in the first 2 years. She is foot perfect but it took 2 years for her to be reliable.

They are much happier and content with a job to do. The clue is in the name "working" cocker. Boredom = unwanted + sometimes destructive behaviour

I have a springer and he definitely needs a ‘job’ to be happy and fulfilled. Things like agility/flyball aren’t usually recommended until over 12 months but we did scent training when he was younger which was brilliant. He’s 2 now and we also do hoopers which is loads of fun.

My main advice for a spaniel would be gun dog training as soon as you can. We didn’t start until ours was 1 and I wish I’d done it sooner rather than general puppy classes! Our gundog trainer only does spaniels so it’s so tailored towards their natural drives and I’ve learnt so much from it. We’ve done several courses and also do a once a month session.

Spaniels can be hard work but give you back love and loyalty a million times over

Brain work is more important than physical activity. Ideally you want a mix of the 2. But brain work is always the priority. Especially when young. So many people think physically tiring their puppies is enough. Some even take them on long walks and end up with hyper dog at home.

Total recall by pippa mattinson is an excellent book for recall. Teaching recall from young is worth every minute of effort. I always start once they have settled in at home, even before they go outside.

Also, teach them quiet time. This needs to be a routine. I have only owned cockers as an adult and I think this is a big one. Mine always are super chilled first thing in a morning and after 7pm. Because that’s what I trained them to do. I am quiet, don’t play with them just relax and have cuddles and they get gist. My working cocker gets huffy now if I don’t go upstairs by 9pm as that’s my usual routine. She comes up with and lays in her bed while potter about getting things ready for the next day.

Also they are nippy puppies. My advice there is to pick one of the many techniques people suggest and stick with it. Consistency is key. I always do the yelp. Then stop playing and interacting with them for a few minutes. But you have to keep at it. People chop and change techniques when it hasn’t worked after a few days. It takes longer than that.

They are much happier and content with a job to do. The clue is in the name "working" cocker. Boredom = unwanted + sometimes destructive behaviour.

Agree with this.

My cocker is ten now and even though she's tiny (only 10KG) she needs at least 2 hours a day. And she's still all go most of the time. She'll settle and snooze when necessary, but that doesn't mean she's happy. She easily out-energises my golden and my Dalmatian.

Also, PLEASE socialise from day one. Take the puppy out in your arms to see the world (do not put him/her on the floor until vaccinated). Sit in a coffee shop etc (with them in your arms). Get them used to travelling in the car etc. Cockers make lovely pets but even the working ones can be prone to be twitchy and highly strung if not properly socialised.

Train from day one too: you can do things like teaching sit/down/recall/paw /wait/heel/flying down etc from the day you bring them home. Until they're strong enough (18 months - 2 years) to do things like agility (it will damage their bones if done to young) you need to focus on training to help your dog.

I hate to be the one to say it, but I really don't think I would recommend a working cocker spaniel around chickens or any kind of bird.

Perfectly doable if you train the pup to ignore the birds etc. In fact it is essential obedience training and if you can do it before prey drive kicks in then it will mean the dog doesn't chase birds out on walks etc

this is amazing advice thanks I have a wcs .not 1 yet and this is what we are trying to achieve with him . he's quite a settled little dog although he has his moments, anyway OP good luck with your pup I adore mine they are lovely dogs.

Unfortunately I've never met a (pet) working spaniel who doesn't at least try to chase birds given the opportunity. That could be anything from mild interest that can be redirected immediately, to chasing and killing (and eating) them.

I'm sure they exist but IMO it's a big risk to take if you have your own pet birds, especially if they're free-roaming. If they can be entirely separated and you can guarantee the dog won't get in with them then that's different.

Me neither. the few terrifying incidents we've had with ours where recall went totally out of the window involved pheasants. Fortunately he has never actually caught one but there has been a few close calls.

Yeh that's the difference, a pet working cocker. Actual working dogs are taught to ignore birds and actually it is a very simple process but most pet dog owners aren't aware of this. To be honest it is also a safety issue, I've known dogs be run over chasing birds.

But OP's dog is going to be a pet working cocker

A spaniel I walk disappeared after some birds last week when out with her owner - luckily just on the beach but it took over an hour to get her back and she busted her cruciate ligament in the process.

She had previously been a working gun dog before being re-homed to a pet home and she still disappeared.

Are you planning to work it (as in picking up on shoots etc)?

And that's the exact reason why all high prey drive breeds should be trained not to chase live prey! I bet in its working home that dog wouldn't have chased birds, chances are the new owner didn't reinforce basic training.

This is why I don't think working breeds should go to owners who aren't aware of how to handle that breed and harness the instincts. WCS can be anxious and highly strung and need strong foundations of basic training. Too many in rescue places from 6 months of age due to RG, SA etc because basics have not been put into place and the owners didn't understand how to deal with a working dog.
They are at their best working on moorlands/woodlands or doing scentwork etc.

You can't always train instinct out of a dog, though - sometimes the best you can do is manage your environment and your walks to mitigate any risks.

And no, in this particular case it's nothing to do with her new owners - they have another working cocker who has absolutely perfect recall around birds and will come back the second you call him, every single time. They also had a collie who was impeccably trained around sheep

I agree that some working dogs aren't suited to pet homes, though.

Canicross: when he's old enough, your best bet is to join a local club. Dogs run better in a group and they'll likely have kit they can borrow. It's great socialisation for them (and you!)

K9 trailtime and Canicross Trailrunners have club maps on their website.

No you dont train instincts out, you learn how to harness the instincts to work with you not against you.

Our one year old wcs is currently sound out on the front room floor. She doesn't work and isn't exercised all the time. She is a happy pet. We researched her breeder and found one who breeds WCS aimed for the pet market. The dogs are health tested and the breeder is licensed.
Maybe we were just lucky but then we did do a lot of research before buying.

Yes, I agree - but you can't do that straight away and in the meantime, OP is going to have a working cocker around a flock of chickens - I just see it being stressful (at best) or upsetting (and messy) at worst.

It's not a risk I would take with my birds or my dog, personally.

Join agilitynet on Facebook and ask for recommendations for an agility club that teaches foundation agility which can be done from 6 months. This involves learning basics that are age appropriate and are no impact on the joints.

My working terrier, from a working mum lives with a cat. Her relatives lived with cats and chickens with no problems. When we went to view pups there were five adult terriers and a cat on the sofa!

As long as the OP is aware of management and training then I don’t see an issue. My sisters ex racing grey lives with chickens with no problems.

My wcs learned not to touch Guinea pigs as a puppy. I think he could definitely have learnt to leave chickens alone if trained from the start.

Going to agree with this. For the love of God don't fall into the trap of walking puppy 2 hours a day every day to try and tire them out - you will just end up with a dog who 'needs' 2 hours a day.
We did a scent training course and worked on her recall basically every moment she was awake for the first 6 months - apart from the fact you need the recall, it means they can go off and do what they love best - crashing around in a bit of woodland, but will constantly have their eye on you ready to come back if asked.
RE: Recall and prey drive - some people get on fine with using kibble, but we used actual meat, or meat pate, because I always wanted what was in my pocket to have a good chance of being more exciting than what she'd find on the ground and it really paid off. Like, I wouldn't come back for a dry little dog treat, would you? JR pet products do a meat pate that you can cut into cubes that is the perfect amount of meaty, wet and slightly smelly that makes it VERY appealing. We get lots of compliments on her general focus on us - she always has one eye on me and predicts my movements very well - I credit this to using exciting training food and training recall multiple times throughout the day in lots of scenarios.
Our trainer advised us to sometimes give her a treat if she came back to us without being asked or even turned to look at us without her name being called, which I thought was clever - again, it's paid off hugely.
Ours doesn't know she's meant to chase chickens.. not sure how we've managed that, but we did get lots of practice early on by going to places with lots of birds/squirrels about - I think the crucial thing with training with prey drive is you need to actively seek out situations to train, not just wait for them to arise, if that makes sense? Obviously on a lead! Ours will still chase a squirrel occasionally, but can be halted - you do need to accept you need to be one step ahead of them - you need to be on the lookout more than them!
Oh and play hide and seek with them - one of you holds them, other goes off to hide.
As a final note: sweetest, funniest dogs ever, even if you might regret it at the 6 month mark - they are just giggly toddlers in fur suits.