Weird about walks?

[Unluckycat1]

Does anyone else's dog show (i) no real enthusiasm about walks (so no standing by the front door clearly desperate to go on one—though she will give a low whines and act restless if a walk is really overdue), and/or (ii) show clear aversion towards their harness? (As opposed to what I would presume is normal doggy yay I'm going on a walk excitement when seeing it).

My dog is 14 months. Quite calm considering. We got her at 10 weeks and for as long as I can remember she shows signs of panic when the lead and harness is picked up (looks away, sometimes runs to her bed etc). She's very tolerant so allows me to put it on her and then dutifully makes her way to the front door, and seems to enjoy her walks. Is not dog aggressive, but does lie down when dogs come near (seems to want to say hello and play with them if they approach). She is very sniffy on walks which I presume she wouldn't be if highly stressed. Is friendly towards people. Honestly seems mostly relaxed (unless she sees a squirrel).

I don't like doing something she clearly tells me she's uncomfortable with, but not taking her on walks would be worse.

Theories I've had. She doesn't like the car and worries that's what's about to happen (rare that she goes in it).

Or, it's because the harness goes over her head. I've tried looooads, and most had to be returned. The current harness goes over her head, but is so wide it doesn't make contact with her. I'm open to suggestions of harnesses that don't go over the head though.

Or it's just a quirk? Ingrained behaviour? She's likely a mix of dogs that can be a bit weird (saluki, collie, gsd). Tbh I thought (hoped) she would grow out of it but that seems unlikely now. Should I give her high value treats after I put the harness on? (I've been trying to use them only when recall training).

Or maybe loads of dogs are weird in the same way and so she's actually normal..?

Mine's the same. Hides under the table or behind the sofa but then once the harness is on trots to the front door. Again we've tried different harnesses but it was the same behaviour with all of them. Just one of her many weird quirks!

Mine does the same thing of hiding, I think because he doesn't like me putting his jumper on (and he really needs one in winter, it's not for fashion - although he looks really smart)
As soon as we're out, he happily trots to the park.
When he doesn't want to be out, he's very very clear about it, he just stops and looks at me like I have killed his family and he's begging me for mercy to spare him.

I think he just got into that weird habit of going under the sofa actually.
He does the same when I open a specific drawer, and when I prepare his food in the evening (but not in the morning).

If I know that we have to leave quick, I grab him before grabbing his stuff, so he doesn't go under the sofa.
Otherwise, I just take his stuff, grab my coat and bag and wait for him to come down, he always arrives within 30-45secs.

In terms of harness, mine has one that doesn't go over his head, however, it still involves a bit of handling, because you need to put each leg in the right hole.
It's this one: https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/pets-at-home-mesh-dog-harness-blue?size=xx+small?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&cm_mmc=Google--CPC--%20google_shopping-_-google_shopping&ita=1976&ito=google_shopping&istCompanyId=7255ccad-a1fc-4729-af31-478f79e5071c&istFeedId=385e6b9a-8b03-4076-a8bb-e4737df8549c&istItemId=pwirrlrpl&istBid=t&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=8964965690&cq_term=&cq_plac=&cq_net=g&cq_plt=gp&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoeGuBhCBARIsAGfKY7yVpgs1E_pTZR2MhkqQOvrKnaG2QiEz1UtU53m1FTW3xJk0pqkKpDoaAsTdEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

(that's a horrible link, apologies)

I would see if you can get some advice from a behaviourist experienced in working breeds like collies and gsd, one who really knows those breeds well (Sarah Hedderly is good for collies). Sounds like your dog is lacking in confidence generally, and needs this built up. Sniffing is a classic stress behaviour, so if you think she is doing this lots, it may be indicating stress rather than lack of. Her attitude to other dogs also suggests she isn't confident meeting them at the moment. For walking could you train loose lead walking and use a simple collar and lead? So avoid the harness - some dogs just don't like them. Can do lots of loose lead walk training in a garden so less pressure. You can also work on her dislike of cars - e.g. by feeding her in the car and slowly building up to starting it and going on short journeys. I'd work on confidence building at home and worry less about walks - do lots of fun training and games to use her brain to build a strong bond. Scent work is great for this.

Thank you @FarmersWife3 that's really interesting, I didn't know that about sniffing, I see it presented as a real positive thing to let them do, but it makes sense actually alongside other things I've read (e.g. that dogs sometimes move towards people even if they are nervous of them in order to sniff them and better understand the situation). I have wondered if she lacks confidence, certainly with the lying down, but my research has thrown up so many reasons for it (like, invitation to play) but it is quite excessive. I started counter conditioning when seeing other dogs but got distracted by recall training, which has gone well so I think I'll go back to dog counter conditioning, and if that doesn't help will contact a behaviourist.

thanks for showing me that she's not alone @MotherofMigraines and @FastFood maybe it is just habit — I think I'll try that harness to see if it helps anyway, they have it in stock in my local store :)

She sounds quite anxious.

Did you ever do any positive association/training around the harness or did you just put it on her and take her out?

@lifebeginsaftercoffee She came home from the rescue centre wearing a harness and I would do harness walks in the garden to carry on getting her used to it and don't recall any reaction then (she couldn't be walked outside the house for nearly a month because of the vaccine schedule). I'm almost certain the reaction developed afterwards, and I think probably as a reaction to associating it with the car. I (wrongly) thought it would go away naturally when avoiding the car for the most part. In hindsight I wish I had trained a positive association. Hopefully it's not too late!

I don't know if she's anxious. She seems very calm at home. Curls up close to me most of the time. Doesn't bark at passing dogs (likes to look at them sometimes, but equally is not obsessed with looking outside). Doesn't have separation anxiety. Sleeps soundly all night. No toileting accidents. Maybe she does have anxiety in relation to other dogs when out, but she's also friendly towards them. I'm a first time dog owner so could very well be missing some signs. The rescue center described her as 'one of the less sure ones' (of the litter) so I guess she's primed for wariness.

Lots of dogs are incredibly confident in the house and much less so on walks - their home is their safe space, after all.

Your posts describe a dog who runs away from her harness, is nervous of the car, lies down on walks and does a lot of sniffing. These are all signs that she's anxious about going on walks and that she could do with a confidence boost.

Counter-conditioning and positive association are great places to start with that and are things that generally need to continue throughout their lives. My own dog is anxious around others after a few bad experiences as a puppy - he's six now and we still do lots of counter conditioning and positive associations with other dogs. If we stop (even for a day or two) he regresses.

Our dog has never shown enthusiasm to go out. He gets frustrated if we don't though, because it is part of his routine. I think sometimes he just goes because he wants what comes next (play, food etc depending on the time of day), but other times he seems to be having fun. So we try to keep variation in the walk locations and experiences he has.

He also hated his harness as a puppy. We change to a collar and he would still run off and fight with his bed when we put it on!! He is fine once we are out though so we just put it on last minute now.

So basically sounds very similar!

My dog is 19 months and has NEVER been enthusiastic about going for a walk, she's always happy enough when she's out (unless it's raining) she always trots about with a waggy tail but ever since she was spayed she seems much less confident around other dogs.

If she sees one approaching she stops walking to observe them, if it's a dog she knows she will happily go and greet them, if she doesn't know them then she will refuse to walk until they approach her and then she will sniff them and wag her tail. If she decides after observing that the approaching dog is too bouncy/yappy then she wants absolutely nothing to do with them, she will refuse to walk past and if the dog tries to sniff or pass her then she will either get low down to the floor or come to the other side of me trying to get away from them.

She was very confident before her spay but she's also had a couple of large breed off lead dogs barrel into her or step on her while she was on lead (she's a small breed) so that has probably contributed to it.

As for harnesses mine has a Twiggy Tags harness. It doesn't go over the head it has a clip instead so basically goes on like a collar iyswim then has a clip on either side of the chest.

Thanks @lifebeginsaftercoffee it might be that she is anxious outside. I'm back to counter-conditioning when we see other dogs and she's picked it back up very fast. At the very least it makes our walks slightly less awkward, because other dog walkers can understandably seem wary when confronted with a largish dog prowling towards theirs before lying down and intensely staring at it 🙈

@BeansOnToast32 do you know if that's a common after effect of spaying? I've come across similar with boy dogs before, but didn't know the same could happen with bitches. Tbh she has seemed a bit different since her first season, so maybe a bit more weariness around other dogs is inevitable as they age. Thanks for the harness suggestion!

Mine hated his first harness because I had to manoeuvre his legs into it. We switched to a new one to get rid of the associations (one that went over his head) and gave him a treat when he put his head through the hole, and I can put anything on him now. I think treats would really help, but coordinate it with a new collar/harness to make it all new and build a new nice association.

Mine loves a walk but hates his harness and collar. He will run away from having them on but he definitely wants to walk. He gets excited barking and pacing up and down wanting to go but still he hates the harness. I give him a piece of chicken every time to get him to put his head through. I don't think it's uncomfortable; as soon as it's on he's fine again. It's just literally the over the head business he hates. I have just accepted that I have to pay him the chicken to wear it.

I disagree a little about the sniffing. My dog used to hate walks and was a major freezer. This was to the extent I stopped walks for quite a long time and just played a lot of bonding games and training games at home. He’s come on so much over the years and really enjoys a select group of walks, and one in particular is really just a sniff around as it seems to have great sniffs. I see his walks often more as a sniff than a walk. He didn’t sniff at all really when he was super nervous.

I’ve also learnt that they can be nervous about one aspect but still enjoy the walk. Eg we go to a NT site regularly which he does love but I can’t get him in without dragging - he is very scared of going in buildings. At the moment we can skirt the building and I attach 2 leads together so he can go far away while I scan in but soon they’re changing the entry system and he will have to come inside . He won’t do that willingly. It’s not something I can train him out of - he thinks it’s a vets, essentially. But when we are in he clearly enjoys the walk. I can tell because he was such a bad freezer and now he trots happily ahead (without pulling) and does a lot of interested sniffing.

So I think your dog could be enjoying the actual walks. I’m sure you’ve done this but I think I’d be giving lots and lots of treats at each stage of the getting ready process and really break it down so that one step doesn’t always proceed to the next, but is an end in itself sometimes?

Mine also is scared of other dogs. He looks to me for a treat generally as soon as they have passed rather than as we see them (he won’t take one then) so I’m not quite there yet with the training. But mainly I avoid other dogs as I don’t think he will ever be comfortable around them on walks. He does go to a boarder and hangs out with a couple of other dogs occasionally, although prefers to keep to himself, but he looks quite relaxed as far as it goes - he’d rather be at home of course !