How to handle 'nipping' dog

[hihimr]

I am not a dog owner, and full disclosure I'm not a dog lover, but would appreciate some feedback/suggestions on how to manage a situation, and whether I am overreacting.

I have DS5.
DSIL has a 3 year old staff.

The dog has been extremely energetic, jumpy, 'nippy', since puppyhood. It's been a bug bear of ours that (we feel) very little has been done to try and train or control her. No training etc, and DSIL has never really stopped from the dog jumping over (sometimes scared) DS. Never shut in a different room etc even for short periods of time, just half hearted 'stop jumping' shouted from across the room. We always just shadow DS as much as possible to protect him and ward off the dog!

DSIL truly believes that the dog is good hearted and would never ever hurt a child. She allows lots of rough and tumble interactions between her own children and the dog, and to my knowledge there has never been an incident.

We actually didn't see them for a while because of it, but never actually addressed it verbally. Trying to avoid the family fallout, and we were hoping she would grow out of it once no longer a puppy. However, it's appears to have gotten worse and today she 'nipped' DS's hand hard enough to mark. (In one of the few moments I wasn't shadowing him/warding the dog off).

To clarify, the dog was not sleeping or disturbed, or frightened by DD. The dog was trying to play. I would also say that I don't think the dog is aggressive.

I removed us from the situation pretty much immediately.

My feeling DH needs to address with DSIL that we will no longer attend events when the dog is there. I don't think it's a bad spirited dog, but it's not controlled. However, I'm very much not a 'dog person' and I wanted to get some opinions as to whether I am being reasonable to say that enough is enough.

So I guess I would appreciate feedback on whether;

• This is normal and responsible dog ownership behaviour?
• It's fair to call it a 'nip' if it's bruised? When does it become a bite?
• AIBU to say that my DS won't be around this dog for the foreseeable? (Even if it causes a royal falling out!)

Thank you.

YANBU. No responsible person allows their dog to nip while playing. Allowing it with children is deranged and dangerous. You can't train their dog, the owners are idiots, all you can do is keep your child away from it. Poor dog.

are you waiting for it to bite your sons face off before you man up and prevent this dog biting?

my 6 mth puppy knows not to bite, to be gentle with his mouth. your SiL is a negligent dog owner

I have dogs. No way would I allow a “nipping” dog anywhere near my child. Don’t go to their house. Don’t meet up anywhere the dog will be allowed. Safeguard your child.

A bit is when skin is broken at all and would need a tetanus so I’d assume it’s different but as above from about 6 months my dog would pick up a teddy instead of nipping. Easy peasy puppy Squeezy is the book to hand to your sil and tell her you can’t really have the child near the dog since she got bitten and will she come over to yours instead? No drama needed but your sil needs to cop on!!!

Thanks for responses.

DH and I are the only wider family without a dog and everyone (not just SIL) has just been saying 'it's just nipping' 'she's just excited'. I feel a bit gaslit, In fact even google says it probably doesn't count as a bite and just a nip, and nipping is normal sensory exploration shrug 🤷 but then everyone here seems to be validating what I am saying.

We will not be seeing the dog for the foreseeable

Sorry, when you say a staff, do you mean a staffordshire terrier? Because their bite strength is stronger than a pit bull terrier, which is one of the dogs banned in the UK. Even a nipping chihuahua wouldn’t be great, but this is a truly dangerous situation. I would stop exposing your child to the dog immediately, and perhaps be glad, knowing it was ill behaved, that it was only a “nip,” as it could have been so, so much worse.

It appears I cross posted with you @hihimr . It sounds like you’re definitely making the right decision and please don’t be gaslit by the dog’s owner, who takes no personal responsibility, or Google, which can never know the nuances of every situation. They may be talking about three-month old puppies nipping until you train them not to, NOT three-YEAR old dogs.

Staffie bites are awful, I've seen one literally hanging off someone's arm (IRL) it was horrifying. I wouldn't take a 5yo (or any child) around a Staffie known for "nipping".

It might be normal developmental behaviour but it needs training, it's not going to go away magically by itself

People humanising dogs by saying they are "good hearted" and "would never hurt a child" do not understand animal behaviour and the fact she just vaguely shouts commands at it across the room also - poor understanding of animal behaviour.

Also if the dog is energetic and overexcited it probably isn't being walked enough.

I do mean a Staffordshire terrier. She is literally a coil of muscle and power. But say that to DSIL and she'll tell you all about how 'Staffies are nanny dogs' etc etc.

Thanks for your reply.

One of my dogs was prone to do this and it took a lot of work to stop the behaviour. I never encouraged it but she would just get giddy with excitement sometimes and had a penchant for noses and ears. Absolutely not what I wanted from a strong staff-ish dog. No fucking way would I let a dog who did that near children. I don't doubt it's a good natured dog but that only goes so far without a responsible handler, and dogs playing rough on human skin isn't okay in my opinion. It can really hurt!

@hihimr , I know you’ve mentioned feeling gaslit by your SIL and if she’s pulling out that nanny dog myth, then I’m sure it’s even harder. It won’t do you any good to show your SIL this, but for your own piece of mind, here is an article from a BREEDER explaining why that type of myth can lead to children (and adults) being bit.
https://www.grandtetonbullies.com/post/no-such-thing-as-a-nanny-dog

Biting hands when over excited is fairly normal dog behaviour - as in, most puppies will do it and it takes a varying amounts of time to train them it’s not acceptable, most dogs will have stopped between 6-12 months, the odd one can take longer.

But no, it’s not responsible dog ownership to have done nothing about it by 3 and not take it seriously, because while it is just a dog who doesn’t know how to play with humans appropriately, it doesn’t make it any less sore or not an issue.

It doesn’t really matter that she won’t have meant to hurt him, she did...

Its totally not unreasonable IMO to say, she hurt him enough to leave marks, he’s scared of her, we don’t want him to be round her. But realistically if they’re not reasonable (and they’re obviously not or it would have been addressed already) there us going to ge fall out.

Your SIL is a twat.

Yes, all puppies nip when they're tiny, as it's how they play/communicate with their litter.

It's your job as a dog owner to train them out of it by redirecting their mouth to toys. If you don't, they'll carry on!

Dog owner here; you are being gaslit. Its shitty ownership to let your dog jump all over people, let alone nip or bite. I'd be mortified if mine did that.

This is absolutely not normal behaviour for a three year old dog - they're adults at that age and should have grown out of mouthing a long time ago.

Puppies nip and mouth all the time and under six months it's very common to be nipped and hurt by them - but by the time they get to one they should have stopped teething and have learnt the self control n to know that it's acceptable.

I would never have a child around an adult dog who "nips". Ever. It's a sign of very poor training.

Thank you all. It's difficult for us to comment as we are quite ignorant about normal dog behaviour, so appreciate some experienced views.
It's just going to be so awkward as they will view it as a slight against one of their children tbh. But so be it!

I wouldn’t be seeing the dog again. It probably will damage your relationship with your SIL but if she isn’t mortified by her dog biting her nephew then it doesn’t sound like she’s that bothered.

She'll be bothered if and when there's a child in hospital due to her ignorance and negligence. Make sure it's not yours.

Most dogs learn (are trained) to stop doing this before a year. Our dog was a rescue who came to us when he was the same age as your sil dog, and he mouthed and nipped when he got excited as he had never been trained. It took a few months but with training we nipped it in the bud.
We got a dog trainer and had four 1 to 1 sessions which included our kids, they are older though. I kept a material lead attached when we had any visitors so I could stop any unwanted behaviour very quickly. It would be easy for them to sort this if they wanted to.

Thanks, I don't think they've any intention, they just view it as her excitable personality, and are too busy with their several young children to concentrate on the dog's behaviour.

On the gaslighting... MIL told me yesterday that it's different with SILs kids, because they've grown up with the dog, they have a special bond.. implying that she thinks this dog is not a danger to them, even though she witnessed it bite my child 5 minutes earlier...

Guessing there's no evidence behind this claim? 😂

Firstly, there will be no reasoning with your SIL. If she's one of these 'nanny dog' twats, that tells me all I need to know.

But obviously nipping is NOT ok, in any circumstance. As you pointed out, the dog is a ball of muscle and excitement. SBTs are very tenacious and game for anything. I would say the risk of this escalating into a much more serious situation is very high.

Keep your child away forever. These people are not to be trusted.

It's probably already 'nipped' her kids. They're just not telling you that bit.

It sounds like a recipe for disaster. Young, hyper, strong willed mentally and physically dog, several young and probably hyper children and negligent parents who will make every excuse under the sun for this animal.

What could possibly go wrong eh!

Special bond is again humanising the dog. A lot of people do this, they think that dogs think of biting/nipping in the same way we think of, for example, being slightly mean. Leaving someone out or insulting them. As in conceptualising that it hurts and we wouldn't hurt someone that we love whereas someone we don't know that well, we would obviously try not to hurt their feelings but if it happens then it isn't the end of the world.

Dogs do not see it like that - to them nipping/biting is a self-protective behaviour in the same way that young children will push and hit each other physically to get another child out of their space, away from a toy they want etc. And as they get older they learn to speak and also they get told off for hitting/pushing so they learn what are socially acceptable ways to get what they want.

Dogs can have a relationship/bond with a human and that probably means they will resort to things like nipping/biting less because they get to know that human and predict their behaviour. That doesn't mean that they won't ever resort to it if the human started behaving unpredictably or they felt threatened. It just means they feel safe around that human.

But yeah in genreral, dogs aren't thinking of biting in any moral way as in it's wrong to bite my friend but it's right to bite an intruder that is threatening my friend, it's purely a defensive tool for them. People put human morals onto dogs and this is dangerous because it gives them a false sense of security.