How to respond to aggressive dogs in the park?

[StandingUpForWhatsRight]

Hi,

I wondered if I could ask advice from experience dog owners? I've never had a dog.

My son is out of school with anxiety at the moment and we are going for lots of walks, because the sunshine and exercise helps.

DS is very nervous of dogs, because just after the first lockdown a neighbour's dog squared up to him and barked and growled savagely and looked as though it might attack him.

Now we are out and about he is getting less nervous of them, and that is great. However, today in the park I saw two normal looking labradors run up to a man sitting on a bench and start barking savagely at him and really looking incredibly agressive, right up close to him. The owner called their names casually, but otherwise did nothin,g and just wandered slowly over to where they were. If it had been my DS he would have been having an absolute fit and I wouldn't have known what to do. After the man got the dogs away, they starting fighting each other and he couldn't separate them.

I wondered if you think I should carry tennis balls to throw for dogs if they get crazy with us like that, or a stick to give them a gentle tap on the nose or something? Sorry if that is not the right thing to suggest. I really don't know a lot about dogs. I would be really grateful to know what I should do if we get in a position like that.

Thanks so much for thinking about it.

Please don't do either of those things. All you will do is wind them up even more and you could end up with a nasty bite.

If a dog comes up to you, the best thing to do is ignore it. Stand still, fold your arms and look away. If they jump up, stick your knee up so that the dog is pushed backwards.

I’ve found getting hold of the collar very effective when I was looking after young children and dog was bothering them.

The owner who had called out with no impact whatsoever moved so fast when I held the collar.
It was a Labrador though. A Spanish friend of mine always took a big stick on walks to throw/brandish but she was very full on.

Don’t do either of those things, you’ll end up either causing a fight or making it even worse.

I’d call out before the dogs even get near your DS and ask the owner to put a lead on them. I certainly don’t like our dog running around small children, she’s not nasty at all but due to her size could easily knock a DC over. I always keep her on lead if I see young kids around!

I’ve found getting hold of the collar very effective when I was looking after young children and dog was bothering them.

This is a pretty risky strategy as lots of dogs hate being grabbed by the collar and will turn around and try and bite you - especially as you're a total stranger to them.

Stand between the dog and your child. Use yourself as a shield. Stay relaxed yourself- your tension adds to his anxiety and the dog’s excitability.

You are very unlikely to be meeting aggressive dogs, just excited shouty ones. I understand it’s hard to read if you’re unfamiliar with them.

Mine got very interested in people on benches after someone gave him a piece of bacon sandwich.

Hi

Thank you very much for explaining. Is there some way that we could learn to tell the difference between a dog that will bite and an aggressive shouty one? I think it would really help if my son understood that.

I will get ready to shout to any owners if needed, and stand between my son and the dog. That sounds really sensible. Thanks.

Is there some way that we could learn to tell the difference between a dog that will bite and an aggressive shouty one?

Aggressive dogs generally show stiff body language, raised hackles (raised hair on the back), curled lips (showing teeth) snarling and growling - but often the signs are very subtle and not particularly easy to spot from a distance, especially if you're not used to being around not.

@StandingUpForWhatsRight you could watch videos on YouTube.

Try thinking of dogs as toddlers or small children, on a playground. They hurtle around bellowing and shrieking and screaming, because it’s fun.
Sometimes something catches their attention and a couple of them rush up for a look jabbering questions ‘why are you eating icecream? Is it nice? My mum says you can’t have ice cream in winter. Oooh a squirrel…!’ And they dash off again.

Occasionally they’ll have a play wrestle, one will get hurt and go crying back to mum while the other looks a bit ashamed for a moment. Or the one who was hurt may try and have a good push back at the clumsy one.

Mine runs away and hides behind me. I know when he’s had enough because all the running ends up with them hurtling towards me so he can hide. At that point I put his lead on so everyone knows he’s not playing any more.

When you sit on a bench, instead of ignoring the dogs or watching them warily in case they come near, try watching to see if you can work out what’s going on. You’ll start to see the pause as one realises he thinks there’s a friend in the distance. he’ll stand stock still, maybe mid stride, while he checks out who it is, then rush off to see them.

Agreed.

Don’t grab a dog you don’t know unless you want to be bitten.

Bloody stupid advice to even suggest that tbh.

Best thing to do is to avoid the dogs where you can and if they run up to you then yell at the owner to call it back.

I know it is hard if you are scared but the best thing as people have said is to stay clam, show no fear and don't make any sudden movements.

Instead ignore the dog and they should soon lose interest.

Don't do any of the things you suggested in your post, that would just make things worse...

It is incredibly unlikely a dog will just run up to someone and attack them. It's MUCH more likely if they were indoors at home. Some of them are just loud mouthed little shits with idiot owners. I agree with what @lifebeginsaftercoffee said.

This is a really good question OP. There seem to be more dogs and more passive owners. I’ve even felt when walking in our nearby woods with my young DS that owners have felt put out that they’ve then got to recall their dog / intervene / put it on a lead because we’ve deigned to walk there. Or worse, a weak “he’s very friendly”
from afar. Maybe I should have a stick for throwing as a previous poster suggested rather than rely on the owner.

Throwing sticks isn't great for dogs, they can cause catastrophic injuries.

The problem is that the majority of dog owners I see don't seem to be able to recall them. I'm not the OP but I have a similar problem and for my son it isn't about whether they bite or not, he gets distressed when they run at him and touch him, even if they're "being friendly".

I grew up scared of dogs after a couple of close calls as a child. I now have a dog and it has helped enormously because I see loads of dogs daily. I now know they’re very rarely interested in me but run over to my dog. She doesn’t like this if she’s on a lead as she’s trapped so if I’m able I’ll let her off and she’s fine. I always keep my dog away from young chn.She’s an absolute fluff ball and has never shown aggression but you can’t trust 100% and the height of children with food in hands is not a good combination. If I see a big muscle dog or Doberman or Rottweiler or Alsatian all the childhood feelings come back and if I can I’ll reroute but if not I just act cool and don’t make eye contact and keep walking . Teach your child to cross his arms with hands on shoulders and turn away.
Also watch Dogs Behaving Badly on Ch5. You’ll see how dogs respond to noise and movement but de escalate when ignored.

At our puppy training class we had to look at photos online of dogs exhibiting different body language and I got it completely wrong! Now after many years am quite good at reading them. You can look up photos OP with your son like a quiz to test your knowledge.

If a dog is ‘smiling’ with its mouth widen open, moving easily wriggling bouncy even if it looks as if it is squabbling with another dog it is probably playing. If it is stiff, hyper alert, ears back, lip curled showing canines it is not a happy dog and could be aggressive so owner must retrieve urgently.

It has really helped me as someone nervous around some breeds of dog and helped me protect my gentle calm mid sized dog by moving away in time.

I remember reading advice to people being bothered by a dog to stand like a tree, absolutely still and boring so dog loses interest but its very hard if you are small and a dog is big heavy and lunging at you.

Definitely make sure you are not carrying food as this will definitely attract them! Good luck to your DS.

Thank you very much. This is incredibly helpful, especially the posts from @lifebeginsaftercoffee and @pickledandpuzzled.

There here from @lifebeginsaftercoffee is what happened to my son just after the first lockdown:

"Aggressive dogs generally show stiff body language, raised hackles (raised hair on the back), curled lips (showing teeth) snarling and growling" In our case, the dog was also barking loudly and bearing down on my son with clear intent. It had kind of gone full Hound-of-the-Baskervilles on us.

When it happened we were just visiting a good friend and her husband after the lockdown was lifted. We only went through her front gate and chatted from 20 feet away. The friends are retired and were high risk for covid, so they had been very nervous during lockdown. They knew they were safe with us chatting at a distance, but the dog didn't realise they were safe. The dog went totally off the dock on her protective urge, and became extremely aggressive. Understandably, the owners had no idea at all what to do, and the dog was bearing down rapidly on my son. It's left a very deep impression on him. It was such a shame because we knew the dog well as a puppy and my son visited to help socialise her. It was a massive shock to have her turn on him like that.

Unfortunately my son is now out of school with panic attacks. Sunshine really helps him feel better, so we're in the park a lot, along with all the dogs. So I think we need to learn about dogs PDQ tbh. He's gradually realising that dogs are mostly safe, but I need to keep that learning curve going in the right direction. I need to learn about dogs myself, so I can teach him the right things. I only know about cats and horses.

It sounds as though shouting to owners that my son is nervous is the first step if things look to be going in the wrong direction. Then stepping between the dog and my son. If there are two dogs and the owner doesn't help, as in this problem yesterday, then that might be tricky, but at least I have the start of a plan.

Thank you very much for your help. I appreciate it.

Thank you very much @Hollyhocksandlarkspur that is really helpful.

We are always carrying food as we walk back from the supermarket across the park. Maybe the thing to do if a dog is really causing a problem around us, and the owner won't help, is to lay the bag down and walk away from it?

It's really interesting to understand more about dogs. I have had a couple of hamsters previously and they were far far more interesting and complicated than I could have imagined before, so I can see that dogs must be really interesting and complex too.

It sounds as though shouting to owners that my son is nervous is the first step if things look to be going in the wrong direction.

Yep, never be afraid to call out to people and advocate for your DS. I'm a dog walker and feel like I'm constantly having to shout out to people to protect the dogs in my care. It's really frustrating but I've learnt not to feel embarrassed by it - I will happily tell people to control their dogs and get them back on a bloody lead, lol.

Most dogs suffer from extreme nosiness.

My dog suffered from extreme confusion about why people feed ducks but not dogs.

I learned to get him back on Lead before getting to the prime duck feeding spots.

We had a near miss when my on lead dog who was not at all interested in people found himself face to face with a child’s ice cream as we walked past a bench. I noticed in the nick of time and stepped back sharply. That would have been mortifying.

Talking to owners of calm, on lead dogs is another good way of getting used to dogs hanging about. You can start at a distance so DS feels safe, and get closer if you want to.

Thanks, this is really helpful. "extreme nosiness" is a good term. I will explain that to my DS.

We spend a lot of time rollerblading in the street at the moment and when dogs see us they just get the funniest look on their faces. They can't even take their eyes off us. It's like they think we are magical beings, floating along instead of walking, and they are dumbfounded by it. Even my DS finds their reaction funny now.

Perhaps get rucksacks for your shopping - or at least for stuff like bread rolls - so that you don't have to abandon it in the park for some random dog to snuffle through!

From what you described, it sounds like the dogs were being bad-mannered as opposed to aggressive.

It's not great to run up and bark at a sitting person. But the bark can mean a lot of things that aren't aggressive, including "Look! It's a guy! On a bench!"

The fighting between two dogs who live together is likely to have been playing. It sounds awful, like they are really trying to hurt each other, but that's how they play. If one of them actually does get hurt, they shriek and the game ends quickly.

I’ve found getting hold of the collar very effective when I was looking after young children and dog was bothering them

It's effective until you meet the wrong dog. Then, you only get the chance to do it twice: once with each hand. You've been very lucky.

Op don't poke out your hands to a dog that might be aggressive!

''I’ve found getting hold of the collar very effective when I was looking after young children and dog was bothering them.''

Terrible advice.

You might have been lucky until now but that is more likely to get you a nasty bite...

I forgot to say in my previous comment OP: do you have friends or family with well behaved dogs? maybe spending time with them could reassure you and your son and help him realise that most dogs are good natured and make good playmates.

I grew up in the countryside and was introduced to dogs are a really early age. Never had any issues with them.

Funnily enough I have had countless bites and scratches from the cats I have had the pleasure to 'own' :) and have dealt with more than a few grumpy horses who had not issue with trying to bite me, throw me or squash me (good times...).

Dogs are the only animals that have never, ever shown me any aggression so far in my life as a big animal lover!