How to know it's time when vet hasn't advocated for it outright

[Jjmcbeal]

I posted about our cavalier King Charles recently. She is 8

She has heart disease and is on a ton if medication. She had been doing pretty well. Last 2 weeks not good. Vets said to up her meds.

Monday night we thought she was about to pass away. Her breathing became laboured, she laid down and couldn't get back up, panting and shaking. She then opened her bowels. We soothed her and sat with her as we were sure this was the end. She then slowly calmed down. She also vomited after that.

We took her back to the vets thinking after what we described he would advise it was time. But he just said he was worried about her and that she could have a scan but she is on the max dose meds now so there would be not much more to offer. I said outright we don't want her to suffer is it time and he said I won't say its the right thing to do but I will say it's certainly not the wrong thing to do and some would have done it sooner.

We took her home to see if she made any improvements and she is just not herself at all. She is still taking chicken and treats and she hasn't been to the toilet indoors but she is wobbly and just sleeps all the time. She is not in visible distress but her breathing is visible and she doesn't seem interested in games and that is not like her. My husband is carrying her up and down stairs when normally she hates being picked up.

We have made an appointment to pts tomorrow and I just wish he had advised it outright as I desperately don't want her to suffer but the fact he phrased it that way makes me so upset we are not giving her all the chances she deserves but whatever happened on Monday night seems to have changed her, like she doesn't quite understand everything anymore 😢 this is so hard. Do you think it could have been a stroke?

Vets will not tell you it's time unless the dog is going to die imminently. They will guide you and you make the decision. It's not for them to say about your animal.

The vet has very much told you what they think - that "it's not the wrong thing to do" is about as clear as they tend to get. Once you say, OK it's time, they tend to say they agree (or they did with both my cat and my dog).

Kindly, you don't want to see visible distress, you want your lovely dog to be out of pain, whatever has happened.

Have a gentle last night together and remember the best of times.

I'm sorry. We lost my girl 11 months ago to sudden liver failure and it was just so awful to see the sudden deterioration from fully healthy and fun to watching her so ill and lethargic.

Our boy went into heart failure at 5 and we had him put to sleep last April at the age of 6.
Like you, our vet did not directly advocate for PTS but we could clearly see his deterioration. Looking back, the clearest sign was when he would only sleep on one side of his body and would no longer sleep on his front. We later discovered that this was due to the fluid build up that the meds could no longer clear.
It was a heartbreaking decision but we gave him an incredible last day and he went to sleep at home surrounded by love.

In my experience, vets never seem to advise PTS outright. I wish they would be clearer on this too, but i've never had a vet tell me straight that this is the best thing/right thing. Having been through the (very very hard) decision and process a few times now, I've realised vets are bit like doctors, in that they like to offer all the possible treatment options, even when these may not be in the best interests of the owner or pet (I don't mean this as a criticism of vets - mine are generally fantastic)! The most recent experience involved the vet talking about CAT scans for my 14.5yr old dog with multiple health issues, when this clearly wasn't appropriate or worthwhile.

My experience is that vets won't suggest PTS unless there is literally no other option and the dog is actively dying in front of them.

They need to be really careful not to upset people or even offend them by saying the animal is suffering unnecessarily. Ultimately I think it has to be your decision. I'm so sorry

If it's any consolation, I think you're doing the right thing. Big hugs x

‘Better a day too early than a moment too late’ is usually what’s said here.
It’s sad but true.
Sending you hugs 💐

I think it's definitely time and you are doing the right thing for your pup. I'm sorry. Its hard to go through 💐

I had my two old Cavalier boys put to sleep recently. One had congestive heart failure and one had cushings. Its tough, but I think you are making the right decision.

I agree - I think the vet has as good as told you what they think - they usually won't be more explicit than this.

I'm so sorry, OP - it's such a hard decision to make

I still think we know our animals better, you know what’s normal and what’s not for your pet and if they’re quality of life has diminished and there’s no meds to alleviate symptoms and more tests would just result in more harm than good.

It seems like time from what you’ve said here. I am very sorry 💐it’s an awful decision to make but also a kindness. Perhaps the vet was hesitant as your dog may have improved with time. You are providing care and acted out of love. Don’t blame yourself xx

it may be worth asking what they would do if it were their dog, that tends to be a bit more explicit in terms of advice. But if it’s crossed your mind, it probably is time. I’m so sorry, it’s the final kindness you can do for them

sorry op. It sounds like she's not distressed so it's not yet a 'day too late' but it is time.

I tend to think that when one asks 'how to know it's time' then that's about the best indicator that it already is. Based on your description I'd be in no doubt. Very sorry about your dog. 💐

'but I will say it's certainly not the wrong thing to do and some would have done it sooner.'

The vet did tell you, there and said it was ok by referring to it even being acceptable to have done it sooner. This is how it works, its still your dog, not the vet's, they guide you but you make the decisions. Dont beat yourself up about it, or blame the vet, its a difficult time and there's no right or wrongs. Best wishes for tomorrow, sorry for your loss.

Vets don't usually advocate. It's a tough decision but only you can take it. It does sound like time and I feel for you. I've been through it twice with my beloved dogs and recently accompanied a friend to have her sick boy PTS. Grief is the price we pay for love as the late Queen said.

We discovered our boy had heart failure in October last year and at each scan we were told it had worsened and his medication upped.
By December he was on the max doses of three different tablets.
While he was still, in the main 'himself' he had experienced a couple of episodes of laboured breathing and was becoming increasingly unsettled and clingy (not like the aloof independent dog we knew at all).
He was having a 'good' day when we had him PTS earlier this month.
We loved him and he died without having to experience pain and distress.I take comfort from that. He did not deserve that.
The Vet did not tell us it was time to PTS but did stress the fact that he was dying- she just could not tell us if it would be days or weeks we had left together.

Thank you all for your responses.

She was pts on Friday. I have no regrets it was definitely the right time.

I wasn't prepared for how bad this would feel though. I'm heartbroken

Very sorry to hear the news, but from your description I'm certain you've done the right thing. You have my sympathy 💐.

So sorry for your loss. Was there just before Xmas its painful