XL bullies still for sale and walking unmuzzled

[NoNoodles]

Has anyone had any experience is reporting this? Saw yesterday a large bully dog walked unmuzzled in Bishop's Stortford and lunging at a couple walking another dog, young male owner had to use full force in restraining it as it stood up. Seen other bully dogs walked unmuzzled in Bishop's Stortford (e.g. Sworders Field) since the ban. How is it possible to report them if the owner is a complete stranger?

Also they are still being advertised for sale. I have tried reporting pets 4 homes ads to them in the past but been fobbed off. All the ads are hilarious: not xl bully, great with kids and my favourite this one "He is a cuddly baby who loves to think he is tiny and sit on you. "
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/sib-8or66-canelo-london/?pmg_source=all"

Just a casual search here: some claim excuses they are not xl bullies, some awaiting DNS tests. Some say they are reactive or fighting with other dogs. Does anyone ever control these sites? I know it is not a breed, but they would meet the guidance description https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/official-definition-of-an-xl-bully-dog/xl-bully-conformation-standard

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/rnfelhmej-loki-6-months-bellshill/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/37pvnbazj-2-year-old-american-bulldog-cross-chelmsford/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/jud3hvst-must-go-as-pair-faye-jojo-london/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/rfwkl82ru-kinga-luton/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/5akv2co6-10-week-old-female-xl-bully-warrington/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/xs9-jukn7-american-bulldog-x-presa-canario-bedford/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/xd9rbxeks-3-year-old-american-bulldog-female-market-harborough/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/qak-ypuh-amazing-american-bulldog-lincoln/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/akvrl0vic-bruno-stamford/?pmg_source=all
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/sib-8or66-canelo-london/?pmg_source=all

The law is all well and good in theory but without the resources to enforce it, nothing will actually change in reality.

I think it's quite reflective of modern day society. It's like with any sort of anti social behaviour. For ease, I shall refer to the anti social offenders as wankers here.

If decent people outnumbered all the wankers that behaved antisocially (inc parading around with nasty dogs), the wankers would gradually get more and more isolated and treated like lepers for their behaviour.

Because there is not much deterrent to being a wanker and compulsory neutering of wankers isn't a thing, wankers are ever increasing in numbers, outnumbering in many areas, non wankers. Ipso facto, things like XL bullies don't get reported because the world is so overwhelmed with wankers with no repercussions for their wanker behaviour and too many other wankers around them patting them on the back for being a fellow wanker.

That dog in the pic looks Pitbull type for sure.

Follow them home or to their car -not making it obvious,then tell the police.

@Ravensky
I agree that it's the same with any type of anti social behaviour. It may start out classified as "antisocial" because at that moment in time "society" (I presume it to mean most of the people living there)doesn't want this type of behaviour, however over time it can almost mutate into "socially accepted" if certain conditions arise.

I also believe that in order to counteract wankerish behaviour we need more people on the other side who are equally forceful in pushing for what they consider to be right, and not just neutral people. I unfortunately consider myself a neutral person, in that I am against the type of individualistic behaviour that goes against society's best interests, but I don't have the skills or good enough mental health to take them on individually, especially because you need to be brave to kick up a fuss about stuff.
I would be able to tell kids to be quiet and not and throw food at the cinema, or speak up if I heard racist or discriminatory language but if I saw someone with a certain type of dog, without a muzzle, I'd adapt my own behaviour, change course, cross over the road etc . rather than draw attention to myself because I would be afraid and I think that often people who present themselves to the world in a way that purposefully makes people wary do so knowingly as it gives them an advantage.

No and I don't blame you @redskybluewater

A family member of mine unfortunately lives next door to the exact sort of people that are the problem but she is terrified of the repercussions of reporting them, let alone approaching them herself. So what happens? They get away with it and a few words from the council or even the police on occasion makes absolutely no odds to them whatsoever. And the poor innocent neighbour gets more abuse.

There is absolutely no deterrent to the general level of anti social behaviour we all see. None. Sure, once a big line is crossed, maybe something happens but that line in the sand keeps growing more and more accepting of appalling behaviour which decent people have to just 'accept' as normal.

It's utter shite but unless there's a move afoot to go back in history to a time where there's less punishment for locals sorting out the local massive wanker than there is for the massive wanker, it continues and it gets worse.

I've seen one walked without muzzle in the last week, but assumed it didn't meet the height at the withers requirement in the legislation so didn't give it much thought. Could be wrong though!

Unless you're walking up to them with a tape measure, they could well be just under the height requirement for an XL and therefore not actually be XL.

The ban does absolutely nothing to address rubbish dog owners, which is why it's total nonsense and won't do anything to stop dogs causing harm to people due to complete lack of training, of any breed.

There's three more types of American Bully, the Standard, Pocket and Exotic. These are still completely legal.

If someone is walking a dog and it is out of control, that's more something for the dog warden to be notified about, and applies to dogs of any breed.

Good luck with trying to find a dog warden! There hasn’t been one around here for years! As others have said, if you meet a dangerous dog when out and about, there’s no one to inform because they’ve already disappeared.

Well some police forces have asked people to report non-compliers, 101 or 999 if it is an emergency. You may not be able to ID them but most people are creatures of habit so if the police are sufficiently motivated it wouldn't need the flying squad to track them down. I mean, personally if I was up to no good I wouldn't be walking down the street with an XL practically screaming "I'm a ne'er do well, stop and search me" but judging by their illiteracy on social media they aren't the brightest.

No experience, unlikely to experience it tbh. I have seen a few that look XL bullyish unmuzzled but I just assume they don't fit the criteria.

I saw someone walking their huge, very powerful looking dog through the town centre on Saturday. It had a muzzle but it was clipped on to it's collar 😠

Discreet photo, take the details of the car if there is one, then pass the details to the police and the local paper.

Its not too difficult to judge walking past if you have a dog, my dog is 35 cm at the withers so if I see a huge beast I do not need a measuring tape to estimate its height. The one on Saturday was massive. In terms of adverts, using words like standard, pocket, micro, nano, or whatever means nothing if they do not mention a dog's height. A photo with a tape measure should be mandatory to prove. It won't work with the puppies because if mother is standard and dad a cane corso, who can guess what the pups will be? So in this respect the puppies for sale market is totally unregulated.

Perhaps extra license money could go towards more dog warden patrols in areas where dogs are reported or that are dodgy? Proper wardens with tape measures. Common sense doesn't work though.

At least pets 4 homes have fewer "fighter" dogs adverts now, showing XL parents with cropped ears from pure blood lines.

Example of pets 4 home fob off response today: comes from an alternative reality where the ban is still not taken shape. So I can call it a poodle and it's ok

"Thank you for reaching out about this issue.

Pets4Homes takes our commitment to the safe rehoming of pets seriously. We work with responsible and vetted breeders, provide detailed breed guidelines to those considering rehoming a dog, and work closely with authorities to ensure that we adhere to all UK laws. We do not feature breeds that Defra or PAAG (the Pet Advertising Advisory Group) have a recommendation against rehoming.

While we are horrified by the recent dog attacks by American Bully XLs, we listen carefully to experts and animal welfare stakeholders before making changes to our moderation guidelines and animal welfare policies. None of the organisations that we engage with on a regular basis, including the members of the Dog Control Coalition (made up of RSPCA, Blue Cross, Battersea, Dogs Trust, Hope Rescue, Scottish SPCA, The Kennel Club and BVA), are in support of banning the American Bully XL.

We have been working closely with Defra to understand what actions we need to take and by when. As Defra continue their work on first defining the American Bully XL breed (which is not a recognized breed in the UK today) and detail how a proposed ban would take shape, we will continue to make sure that every puppy sold through Pets4Homes comes from a responsible breeder. This includes not allowing any dog, regardless of breed, to be rehomed which has shown aggressive tendencies either towards humans or other dogs.

Pets4Homes prioritises pet safety and adheres to UK laws. As of the announcement for the new legislation in England and Wales, we no longer allow stud listings* for American Bully XL as the breeding, selling, and owning XL Bully dogs will be illegal from December 31, 2023. Beginning December 30, 2023, Pets4Homes will no longer allow any XL Bully listing to be advertised, for any reason, on our website*.

If there is no explicit mention or claim that the dog is an XL Bully, we are unable to take action. We understand the importance of adhering to the government regulations, and encourage you to reach out to your local council to address your concerns. They may have the authority to investigate and take appropriate action if necessary.

Should the law or recommendations from animal welfare stakeholders change on the rehoming of American Bully XLs, we will update our policies accordingly. Meanwhile, the Dogs Trust and several other organisations are putting together online resources to provide guidance on the likely restrictions for XL Bully owners and, when available, a timeline for the process which can be found at the link below:
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/dog-advice/life-with-your-dog/at-home/american-bully-xl

Further reading:
https://www.scottishspca.org/news/statement-from-the-dog-control-coalition
https://www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog/news-article/responding-to-calls-to-ban-american-xl-bully-dogs/
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/about-us/media-centre/ban-of-xl-bullies "

The fact that they are all bull Breeds and none of them KC registered show that there's a good chance they are XL Bullys or at least "type"

If you see one you think is and don't know the name/address of owner then you still report giving time and location.

Will the police follow up? Maybe, maybe not but at least you have tried.

@Wanttobeok there are many Bull or Mastiff type breeds that are not XL Bully, nor are they recognised by the U.K. Kennel Club, including the American Bulldog, Cane Corso and Presa Canario, all could potentially fit into the XL cookie cutter shape though.

Over 40,000 worried and responsible owners of dogs that could fit the type, but may not be XL, have been exempted. That’s a ton more than the Government thought would be registered, but less than what the organisations against the ban advised. People have spent hundreds, even thousands, getting their dogs exempted. And many are terrified to walk their dogs because of nosey people threatening them, hurling abuse, and calling the police, even if they’re adhering to the rules.

And yet the government won’t take steps to improve dog ownership and training. They shelved banning of electric shock collars.

They’re also still being shipped to Scotland. I posted this on another thread earlier today.

This was posted on a FB group near me this morning

”This is Bear he’s 4 years old American bulldog x Alpha blue blood bulldog. I don’t really know what a joke is as I have been left outside and used as a stud dog but I do know basic commands and will ask to get out if in house and someone’s in a can’t stay with any other pets as don’t get on with other dogs and never been around kids so I need a pet free and kid free home and someone that’s going to understand my needs I love giving hugs and kisses never had anyone that really loves me for being a dog and not making them money I like my own garden I can be a good boy the rescue have done a assessment of me.”

This was written by the rescue and copied exactly as it’s worded. The advert is followed by a link to a go fund me page. Another post was made by the person posting this ad asking for free dog toys and blankets to be dropped off to them as they have no money for transport and are saving money for vets bills! A post was also made yesterday asking for £200 to transport this animal from Sheffield to Scotland. This dog has never been around children, doesn’t like other animals, had been used as a stud dog, has probably had very little human contact, clearly hasn’t been exempted yet they want to “save” it. This is one of many posts made by the same person still moving these dogs to Scotland.

Not sure what your point is...all those breeds could fit XL Bully type so should have been exempted if their owners are responsible.

There are to many of them, it will take years of vigilant enforcement to reduce the numbers...

Take clear obvious photos and videos of the idiots and contact the police with exactly when and where you saw them.

The point is that so many people can't identify an XL and just lump all Bulldog or Mastiff types under the same category and the owners feel utterly exhausted and victimised. DEFRA have said that if your dog is clearly another breed you don't need to exempt them, they specifically said KC breed but some may argue something like a Cane Corso is also a defined breed and indeed they are still up for rehoming through rehoming charities who have stated they have spoken to experts who have said they do not class as an XL.

There's an enormous imported Cane Corso (he's cropped and docked) who I often see walking near me. He's impeccably behaved, even when my little tiny reactive dog shouts at him. I've only seen him react to other dogs once, and that was because there was a lady struggling with two large Spaniel/Setter types who were all over the shop screaming at every dog in the vicinity.

Basically, if you're not a Dog Legislation Officer whose been trained in identifying XL's, it's not your dog, and the dog is behaving itself, just keep on walking and don't stalk the poor owner whose got enough to deal with.

@bunnygeek It’s pretty obvious what XL types are- and Cane Corso aren’t XL Pit crosses.

Xl Bullies once you have seen them in person are unmistakable.
often mumpy faced tiny deep set dead eyes things with vast pumpkin 🎃 heads and a slash for a mouth-
If people have their eye in for ID ing dog types it’s not hard .

A woman locally was trying to kid that her red nose pit was a Staffie-

Then she admitted it was in fact a red nose pit.

A Staffie ( English) is a much smaller dog.

@oakleaffy you have described what is at the more extreme end of a Bully, usually merle coloured too. The pics on the DEFRA website aren't that extreme:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/official-definition-of-an-xl-bully-dog/xl-bully-conformation-standard

Not all people are dog breed nerds though and will easily have just such a knee-jerk reaction to someone walking a Staffy cross, a Cane Corso, a Presa, a Boxer cross, or an English Bulldog cross that don't meet the bans due to height or breed cross. If a dog is deemed to be mostly Staffy, it doesn't class as an XL, rehoming centres are still rehoming plenty of Staffy crosses that don't need to be exempted.

And the owners get the brunt of it, people who have dogs that don't meet the guidelines but bare even a slight resemblance to the untrained eye are getting abuse hurled at them by strangers and are terrified to walk their dogs. People are literally encouraging stalkerish behaviour just because of what a dog looks like, regardless of its behaviour, in this thread which is gross.

People are literally encouraging stalkerish behaviour just because of what a dog looks like, regardless of its behaviour, in this thread which is gross.

I agree with this.

There's so much ignorance about what XL bullies actually look like. People assume any large, muscly dog must be an XL when actually, I'd suspect that only a tiny percentage fall under "type".