What would you do with these dogs?

[DogThread]

I’ve named changed here because I don’t want my normal name associated with it.

I’m a member of a chihuahua group on fb and a woman has asked for advice regarding her two dogs. One is 9 and the other is 7.

She escaped an abusive relationship which unfortunately left the dogs very traumatised.

They are no severely aggressive. She can’t walk them, even muzzled as they will damage their claws trying to attack other people and dogs. They managed to break their muzzles it’s that’s bad.

She can’t have people over. They will bark bark bark and bite. She’s had a health visitor over and the HV coat was ripped and the stuffing came out by one of the dogs escaping her a soft crate.

She’s had a friend need a tetanus jab and require antibiotics by one of the dogs biting her and becoming infected.

Her older daughter who moved out doesn’t like coming round because the dogs are aggressive towards her.

She has a 3 year old son who is afraid of them. They nip him all the time.

She has seen numerous behaviourists and even contacted vets. All of them have said they need to be PTS.

She has a new boyfriend she has been seeing for a while and he’s coming round but she’s so afraid of how the dogs will react.

They soil in the house all the time. She can’t let them outside for long because the neighbours complain about the barking.

I sympathise with her. I really do, but I said she needs to PTS. It isn’t fair on her or them. Her friend has said that no matter what she won’t be putting them down

I won’t be surprised if SS becomes involved after a health visitors reports dangerous dogs on site.

It’s sad. Truly truly sad. No one wants their dogs to die especially not “healthy” ones but I really don’t see any other option.

It's a difficult one. I would say these dogs luck direction from their owner. They sound scared and confused. Therefore they have taken matters into their own paws.

Your friend needs to take control and
a) always check her own emotions and try and stay calm & confident
b) she can handle situations and dogs don't need to interfere eg visitors
c) reassure the dogs that they are always safe.

Get a behaviourist and have them assessed properly. Then train & walk them separately. It might even be beneficial to rehome one as its likely they bounce off each other.

Not my friend unfortunately. It’s a random post on one of my groups.

They need to be gone from her house today. It is totally unacceptable for the 3 YO to live in that dangerous situation. Hopefully someone has reported it to police or social services from the FB post.

Hmm. In principle I don't disagree with behavioural euthanasia. But I find it strange that several behaviourists have recommended PTS and think there is probably more to that story.

I am also a bit 😒 at the idea that they escape so much and 2 small dogs cannot be safely contained with a little effort.

Or seperated - temporarily or permanently.

The OP has stated that the owner has taken them to several behaviourists already.

There are worse things that can happen to a dog than being put to sleep. My parents took on a rescue dog that had come from an abusive home. It was 8 years of hell for them trying to manage her behaviour. My mum almost had a breakdown because of it but they were determined to persevere. Speaking to her now, she agrees that in hindsight euthanasia would have been a kinder option.

Yes. It says she has spent thousands in behaviourists

The owner has to decide if they are having a good quality of life. Are they living in constant fear of people, other animals and their surroundings.

It does sound like fear based aggression which if you are the size of a chihuahua, means that the whole world and everything in it is absolutely huge and therefore may be terrifying given their history of living in an abusive atmosphere.

There are two options, surrender them to someone who is prepared to accommodate their fears in a quiet environment with no other animals or children and be able to devote their life to ensuring they are never scared again or she takes them to the vet and says she's run out of ideas how go help them.

She needs to go go breed specific sanctuaries.

“They are no (so?) severely aggressive. She can’t walk them, even muzzled as they will damage their claws trying to attack other people and dogs. They managed to break their muzzles it’s that’s @bad.”

If this was a larger breed and/or looks like a bully breed, then one would hesitate in saying the dogs should be pts.

She has a three year old, plus the dogs have already bit someone, plus terrorised others. They need to be re-homed, at least for the safety of her child.

if the dogs are soiling frequently in the house, I worry about the state of the house. If they’re not going for walks, they are not being stimulated,so all this aggressive behaviour is probably made worse. Are the dogs being properly cared for?

Basically, the person should not have these dogs. It doesn’t sound much fun fir her either.

This is no life for the dogs, they are living in terror and the owner is risking getting herself in all sorts of trouble and putting her child in danger. Frankly it’s selfish and not in the best interests of the dogs.

That’s what I said. If these were bigger dogs, they would have seriously injured or even killed someone by now but because they are small dogs, people in the comments are tying themselves in knots trying to suggest this behaviourist or this training method. She’s already said her son is getting nipped. From a bigger dog, this would be lethal

people in the comments are tying themselves in knots trying to suggest this behaviourist or this training method.

You asked 'what would you do with these dogs?'

This question will, inevitably, lead to a variety of opinions on what people would do. People, being different, would do all sorts of different things.

It's not tying in knots, it's gathering opinions - which will vary. If this is not what you wanted, it's unclear why you asked it - or what you ARE wanting from this thread?

I just wanted to see what other people would suggest that’s all

I suspect the HV will report incident and SS will force her to remove dogs to rightly safeguard her child either euthanase or re-home, they don't have to bite to fall foul of the dangerous dogs act either. A rescue experienced with breeds/ difficult cases like bite history may consider assessing them & if feel they can be rehabbed placed with experienced fosters but demands high and they really shouldn't be passed onto anyone else well meaning or at general rescue, passing with your loved ones around is no bad thing & they don't have a good quality of life if stressed all the time.

They are possibly over protective of her & highly stressed given their background. It maybe they'd improve away from owner and being split up so not all feeding into each others anxieties as she'll be worried about their reactions, they'd read that as something to be concerned about & be on high alert, 2 means they'll back up each other which can escalate the reaction.
Training can only work where owner is capable of putting in the work to make the changes needed, which can be hard as also need to alter own behaviour, fix anxiety. It's somewhat easier to implement things to manage everyone's safety, like why would you use a soft crate that's chewable over a metal one and muzzles probably don't fit if able to be destroyed and should be properly introduced so dog feels comfortable wearing them like a collar not trying to scrape it's face on floor to remove.

Tbh Behaviourist can mean degree qualified in animal behaviour who id expect would work alongside vet for medication input and others its actually someone who only owned a dog a year & now sells themselves as a trainer/behaviourist on tiktok for extra income (true story!) as anyone can use the terms.

I fostered a dog with food aggression and it took six months of solid work to the stage where he wasn't biting and going for people.If anyone knocked on the door he went straight in his crate and all guests were told to ignore him.
i was lucky to have a behaviourist from the rescue.
We started off with crate training and making the area free from anything of value eg toys treats food bowls etc.Feeding wise we put him in a crate in a separate room then when his food was ready we let him in to eat. To be honest it was a nightmare but we got there in the end

I think the OP's 'tying themselves in knots' is referring to the posts on her face book page not on this thread.

These dogs sounds as if they're living in some sort of of fear based hell.

It sounds like PTS would be a kindness.

I think they need separating actually, they're in a situation where they behave defensively together, and back one another up.
They've got a trauma bond due to the violence they've witnessed, so one of them should be rehomed with someone who has the space patience & time to retrain, with support of someone who knows what they're doing with training. I don't believe she's seen someone who knows what they're doing. Sorry people say stuff like that & it sounds shifty.
Either she rehomes both separately or rehomed one & she can see how the other one copes with new rules & proper boundaries