Nightmare around other dogs - is castration the answer?

[Doodledangle]

DDog is 13 months and a rescue with us for nearly 5 months. We initially decided against castration but now wondering if we should consider trying chemical castration (vet's advice) but be good to hear from other experienced dog owners.

We're really struggling with his behaviour around other dogs and it's starting to
get us down. Some dogs, usually male both intact and done, send him absolutely NUTS. He gets in a complete frenzy wanting to be near them, VERY vocal and slightly manic. We usually just take him away but he'll be on high alert & highly strung for ages afterwards. If we try and let them meet he's never
aggressive but literally won't leave them alone and is obsessed with their
genitals and it's definitely got worse over the past months or 2. There's also a LOT of scent marking but that's not such a bother and certainly not reason enough but a reduction would certainly be a bonus!

The main reason we’re hesitant is he has separation anxiety. He literally can’t be
left alone at all which makes it’s extra tough as we can’t leave him but we can’t
take him if there’s other dogs! Some of the reasons we got a dog: long pub
walks, meeting friends with dogs are off the cards and it's really getting us
down.

He isn’t nervous or anxious in any other situation just being left alone.

What would you do in our situation?

I'm interested - why aren't you just getting him surgically castrated?

He needs intensive training, for both the fear aggression and the separation anxiety. It's a long haul, requiring consistency of approach but both these things can be massively reduced with the right approaches.

I suggest (a) surgical castration, (b) investigating and engaging a good behaviourist. Do a lot of research and consider joining the Reactive Dogs UK Facebook group - they were incredibly helpful when we had a dog who was very fear aggressive and we were able to reduce it to almost nothing over time.

It's not fear aggression with other dogs it's complete overexcitement. Barking and whining is if we restrain him and keep them apart as he wants to get to them!

Sorry, didn't spot the other question - we considering chemicals castration 1st to see how he copes without the testosterone.

No I wouldn’t. Neutering won’t stop over excitement.

No it’s not the answer. Either engage a good trainer or look at engage disengage training for him. It’s a game changer for reactive dogs - excitement, fear, frustration.

13 months is still very much a puppy. Mine wasn't ok alone until 17 or 18 months and then we built things very slowly. SA is pretty common if not normal in puppies and especially through adolescence as yours is due to their confidence waxing and waning with hormone changes. It sounds like you need to find a good, reward based sub threshold trainer to hand hold and show you how and go from there.

The answer is the same - find a good behaviourist to help you train it out of him.

Do you (or your DP) have an issue with surgical castration? I know some men think it's "cruel" but it's really not - and putting drugs into your dog regularly isn't a good thing.

Castration would be a lazy attempt at a solution that would solve nothing! Can’t believe a vet would even suggest it tbh!!

Your dog needs proper training and reinforcement that its behaviour isn’t okay - ‘no’ and divert with a treat.

It’s still a puppy/teenager. TBH this is a not an issue to get het up over - it’s easily correctable with some proper training and reinforcement.

If he's at all anxious in any situation, then neutering would be the last thing on my mind.

A lot of this sounds like a training issue to me - have you been to classes? What training do you do with him at home and while out on walks?

Thanks this is all good stuff. No issue at all with surgical castration if it's appropriate but also surprised the vet recommended it and wondered if my thoughts weren't current.Happy not to bother with either TBH!

Behaviour absolutely does need help but feeling a bit overwhelmed as there seem to be so many issues to address: recall, car fear, learning basic commands, jumping up at visitors, reaction to other dogs, separation anxiety.

We've had a couple of sessions with a trainer and I've been working on basic commands at home and park plus started a small group class a few weeks back but I don't actually feel like we're tackling any of these issues effectively. He's super quick & willing to learn but not food driven AT ALL. This does make it hard finding treats he's bothered about enough to either distract or repeat that good behaviour. Taking all the advice on board and will seal to the trainer at our next session tomorrow and see what they suggest too.

My pup wasn’t a rescue, I’d had him since 10 weeks and couldn’t be alone until he was 16 months. He just wasn’t ready before.
He now can only be left when he’s crated.
He used to be very reactive, but we’ve worked and worked on this and he’s so much better.
We are going to chemically castrate soon and observe how he gets on.
Once the nuts are off, you can’t stick them back on, so be very wary!!
Even if he’s desperate to get to the dogs, this indicates lack of confidence as he isn’t confident to just ignore, live and let live, so he might need to keep his balls - at least for another year!

The reason for castration is to do with wanting to go after female dogs in season, OP. Intact male dogs can be dreadful if there's a female in season even a couple of miles away.

Have 2 Retrievers - had them chemically castrated at aged 2 - basically because they were being overly sexual to each other! The procedure lasts 6 months and takes at least 6 weeks to kick in so don’t expect instant results. Both my boys calmed down a lot and were much more calm on walks. One is anxious (working line) and I think it did help this. It has worn off now and I want to go the surgical route but DH not keen! We will do it though! At least with chemical you can see if there are any positive results.

This. I volunteer for a cat rescue & we have loads of abandoned kittens / surrendered pregnant cats because of idiots who couldn’t be arsed to do the right thing & get their pets neutered, then refuse to deal with the consequences. I can’t imagine it’s any different with dogs.

It's always the men who aren't keen - for some bizarre reason, they think castration is "cruel".

So can neutered dogs, to be fair.

It's different with dogs because male neutering can have long-term, negative consequences on their behaviour.

Yes, it prevents pregnancy but it can also increase fear, increase reactivity/aggression and cause behavioural problems.

@EmpressaurusOfTheScathingTinsel I think castrating male dogs is a waste of time to be fair, unless they have an extremely high sex drive. Pet dogs in the UK don't get out unsupervised in the main. None of our male dogs have been neutered and it's made no difference to their behaviour compared to friends' dogs that have been snipped.
Dogs generally coexist and when a bitch comes into season, she's the one that decides who gets near her! That's one reason our dogs are always boys...

I think he’s on the young side for chemical or surgical castration, although I appreciate it varies with breed/ size . Our male was 3. We tried chemical first, but to be honest , I would think twice before doing it to another male. There are reasons for and against, but excitement was not on my list.

Castration can make an anxious dog worst so I'd definitely get the temporary chemistry castration done first as a trial - but as pp have said, it's no longer considered the fix-all it once was

Thanks to the people who’ve explained about the differences between cats & dogs when it comes to neutering. So it’s getting the female dogs done that really matters?

defo do chemical first to try it. Wish I could get my fear reactive dog’s balls back, he was fine until neutering and then became super anxious

If you go this route then try chemical first. You can't put balls back okay and it can make some anxious dogs far worse. Ours are never castrated unless there is a behavioural issue.
Realistically what needs to happen is some good training.

Having your bitch spayed will protect her from unwanted pregnancies and attention from males; it also protects against pyometra - an infection in the womb which comes on quickly/ silently and is often fatal.
Some vets have also said it protects against mammary gland cancers, but it does so by loss of hormones ( it’s a hysterectomy so effectively menopause) so there may be other side effects which are unwanted .

Male dogs - there’s a danger they will escape to seek out the bitch in heat; clearly they could get hurt/ killed by traffic etc; they may attract more aggression from other males; some of the ones I meet try to hump everything ; and again there are some cancers which may be hormonally associated.

Not a vet - just my take on the various theories I have been told.

All male/female neutering in dogs can have negative side effects - it's really not as straightforward as "responsible owners always neuter".

It's irresponsible owners that cause unwanted pregnancies, nothing more.