Advice about behavioural euthanasia

[261023L]

Hoping i can get some advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation to mine.

I have a pomeranian who is 8 and a half years old, we have had him from a pup at 8 weeks. He has always been a nervous dog, we think he has fear aggression. We have tried everything with him and have been able to manage his issues over the last 8 years.

He has always been a snappy dog, stubborn an doesnt like to be overly handled/moved into other rooms of the house etc. He can be really loving one minute, then if we try to get him into another room and he doesnt want to he will growl/snap at our feet if we try to move him. We have been to the vets multiple times with him and they have not been able to identify any physical reason for his issues. We have also worked with a behaviourist which has helped slightly but we still have episodes of growling/snapping. There have been occasions were he has bit myself and my partner in the past.

over the years we have managed to live with these issues by not having many visiotors over/being extra vigiliant or using a crate when we have had neices and nephews over. However, we have recently had a baby 3 months ago and it is becoming really hard to live with his issues. We feel like we are constantly on edge around him/cant relax. It is getting to the point where the stress of it is making me unwell. My worries are how we can keep this up for the forseable once our baby is on the move.
with his bite history/how nervous he is i would not feel comfortable rehoming him or putting him in a shelter. I feel so guilty even thinking about having him pts i just dont know what to anymore.

if anyone has been in a similar situation and could give some words of advice that wohld be much appreciated.

Thanks xx

A good dog rescue will take him and try to help him. Most dog rescues would never countenance killing a healthy dog on behavioural grounds.

You definitely can't have a dog that bites in the same house as a mobile baby. You absolutely must either surrender the dog to a rescue or have him pts. I'm really sorry you are going through this but you have done your best to give him a happy life and you should focus on the good parts of that. No pet lives for ever, you have to say goodbye sooner or later.

Tbh I would choose a rescue place that does pts if they can't rehome. The ones that will never pts a healthy animal are sometimes not making the best decision for the animal - living in a cage for years is not a better outcome than a quiet and painless end.

Rescues are full, especially after the XL bully ban. They often refuse dogs that are aggressive as they are having trouble rehoming dogs that aren’t.
My local dog rescue recommended pts for behavioural reasons rather than the dog be distressed and then (maybe?) eventually rehomed and then he would probably bite again given his history and then he would be pts anyway.
I had to do it for the same reason you did.
I had tried everything before, behavioural therapy etc.

This sounds tough but I wouldn't be thinking of PTS. I'm not sure what you mean about him snapping etc when asked to move rooms, there's a saying about let sleeping dogs lie for a reason. Can you leave him be when he's settled? Why does he have to keep moving?

I would set up spaces that are purely for him. His crate, his bed, his blanket etc and not pester him. I'd teach the child when it gets older to completely ignore the dog. It can be done.

I know he's always been like this but it's a big period of change for everyone. I'd be increasing walks with a dog walker etc so you have time away from him. I did re-home a cat due to her effect on my mental health so I'm sympathetic.

Sounds like a dog that is a bit stubborn (par for the course with pomeranians), doesn't like being manhandled (fair enough) and has learned that more subtle signals won't work, so goes for growling or snapping as a first resort... but is ultimately not really dangerous.

Unless you're massively underplaying these issues, I wouldn't be particularly concerned about adopting your dog - though we are childfree by choice (and alas, we have a dog that needs to be an only dog for behavioural reasons, so can't help in reality).

I would be talking to pomeranian breed rescue before going for BE.

He’s bitten them and can’t be trusted with children so he IS dangerous!

We should remember that health includes mental health - though this dog doesn't seem severe enough to warrant BE

How much actual damage is a pomeranian going to do to an adult? Realistically?

You get substantially more room for manoeuvre with a pomeranian than an XL bully. Having been bitten by both a pomeranian and a jack russell, I have to say that neither did any real damage. Even the worst case was a rinse and a sticking plaster, it's not like they're capable of ripping an adult's throat out.

Now, you get less room for manoeuvre when there's a mobile baby in the mix, and that's why I've suggested rehoming via breed rescue.

I wouldn’t experiment with a dog with a bite history and my newborn baby to see how bad the bite was.

Sorry i should have gone into a bit more detail.

He has a number of issues, is scared of a lot of things, new people, loud noises, fireworks etc. you name it he is scared of it. He wont go for walks with anyone other than myself or my husband, i hve been taking him daily which i dont mind doing i actually enjoy walking him. However if i am at home and my husband tries to walk him he will refuse to go, will growl when trying to put his harness on and will end up going for my husband. But he will go if we both go togther or if i am not at home.

He has a crate set up in the kitchen which he has had for years in there. The kitchen is were he will go at night or when we are going out. We also have baby gates fitted on every door so we can seperate him from baby etc. He cant be left to sleep in other rooms as he will pee on things so the kitchen is the best place to leave him as it can be easily cleaned if he does pee.

i think im just finding it hard now its not just me and my husband to think about and worrying how we will cope once baby is mobile etc.

Have you tried reading the whole response?

I'd agree with a previous poster, the difference here is the size of the dog means they do not pose the same massive danger that larger dogs who bite do. They weigh what, about 3kg?

That said I'd agree you do not want this dog around your baby. I would get in touch with a Pomeranian rescue (there's a Facebook group you could try?) and have a full disclosure conversation with them about the history and your current situation and see if there is an experienced owner of the breed in an adult only household that can be introduced to him to see how he gets on in a new setup.

When the baby is in the room with him and i need to step out i need him to come with me as they cant be left in the same room incase he does snap or bite her etc. But depending on his mood some days he will follow me no problem then other days will refuse to move and growl etc

Get him on a long, light houselead OP, which is clipped to his collar constantly. Maybe 5m long. That way you can take the end whenever you like to gently lead him away.

Pair the action with a command like 'come' and give him lots of praise for coming with you as that gives a sense he is obeying an instruction and being rewarded for it, even though the reality is he has no choice in the matter.

@261023L

why can't you take the baby instead?

I was going to say much the same as @suggestionsplease1

indoor lead, call, reward.

if you really can't cope then I'd start with breed rescue. Be a hundred percent honest with them & say you'll keep him until they find him a new home. to save him being in kennels.

Thanks everyone.

i think i will give the indoor lead a go. Hes always been my baby before my little girl came along and to even think about rehomjng him/pts makes me feel so guilty.
I just want my home to be safe and happy for my baby girl.

This is the biggest bullshit ever. Actual responsible rescues will do a behavioural assessment when an animal comes into their care and the ethical thing (with the correct reviews and protocols in place) for an animal which cannot be rehomed is behavioural euthanasia.

@261023L I've been in your actual shoes. We did indoor lead for a while but then our dog learnt to run away from our DC when they started to crawl. They co-exist now but we never had issues with visitors etc. only other dogs so different behaviour issues to yours.

Seriously talk to your vet about the bites you've received and tell them of the quality of life of your dog is having. Be honest with them. Then see what they suggest.

I also recommend reading the 'Losing Lulu' Facebook group. There's a blog post somewhere about it too if you google it.

I have also been in OPs shoes and chose to pts.
Life with a dog should be happy for both of you.
You can’t live your life in fear your baby will be bitten, hide your dog away, not have people over, etc.
Those who are saying rehome as so naive, rescues won’t take them. They are full. Like someone else said they would be irresponsible to take a dog with a bite history.
It just makes the dog someone else’s problem, a dog bite ks a dog bite. It may not ‘rip your throat out’ 🙄 but small dogs HAVE killed babies and there’s a risk of scarring and infection from dog bites. Especially on newborn skin.

He sounds very much like one of my dogs, it is pure fear aggression and anxiety.
Mine is scared of everything including cooking and the oven. He pees everywhere, we have had him as a rescue for four years. He will bite.
we tried everything and have just put him in Prozac and gabepentin three weeks ago. The thinking is to help his anxiety and also if he is in any pain that he can’t tell us about.
he is definitely better, it’s not a miracle cure but he has stopped peeing and already seems a bit happier.
i would definitely try him with an antidepressant as it can also help dogs to be more relaxed and amenable to training.
a new baby is a big thing but don’t have him PTS, I think you will regret it and you have a few more options.

I'm a huge advocate for behavioural euthanasia but in this scenario I mostly see a dog who is a scared and overwhelmed, not one who is so stressed and traumatised that he needs to be put to sleep.

The first thing I would do is get him to the vet so you can get him a full health check - I would want blood work and for them to check all his joints, ears, teeth, eyes and paws etc. for pain. I would also check his coat for any matts or issues that could be a source of pain.

I know what you mean about not leaving him in the same room as the baby but an older dog isn't going to want to keep getting moved constantly - so I would move the baby instead while she's still portable enough to do so.

If you do have to move him then use a house line on him so you can call him away, encourage him with the line and reward him with a treat. Don't be tempted to pick him or manhandle him just because he's small.