breeders again

[Yllasin]

Could I have opinions on the likelihood of a certain breeder being legit and decent.

1. they breed 2 breeds, (one of which in 2 size varieties)

2. on champdogs claim that puppies are raised in the family home, put photos and videos on social media with dogs in a home, also out and about, beach, park etc (but not that frequently)

3. have 3 females and 2 males of the breed I'm interested in, 2 litters in one month

4. refuse a home visit to meet them because of pregnant females being upset, but happy to do facetime.

5. home address on street view looks like a small house on an estate with little space for good sized garden...

I've decided to keep clear and hopefully find a rescue dog that suits me, but am I being too suspicious?

Thank you

Walk away. The red flag for me would be no home visit. My pups breeder had two litters (same breed) but for legitimate reasons. A lot of show breeders do. Very welcome in their home, as much and as often as we wanted, no pressure and they wanted to meet us in person before selling a pup to us.

You'd need your head wobbled to go near that.

Five dogs in one house is not a breeder. It's a puppy farm.

The best breeders only have 2-3 bitches max (usually use well bred males from stud as the father - then they have the proof of vaccination/stud and you do your own checks on the KC website on hip scores etc) and usually that's 3 generations.

Not letting you do a home visit? No. Holding/seeing the puppies in person/seeing where they grew up is the MOST important thing when it comes to buying a puppy.

The fact they don't even want to meet you face to face is just awful. Show's they clearly don't give a flying fuck who buys their dogs.

3 and 4 are your red flags.

Owning both the males and females suggests they are just breeding the dogs they have not matching dogs and bitches based on what combo they think will result in the best temperamented and healthy puppies.

Refusing a home visit is a massive red flag. Massive. It is unheard of with decent breeders who would WANT to meet you and WANT to see how you interact with the dogs etc.

No home visit is a red flag.
Number of dogs is not.
Do they have the appropriate licence to breed for the breeds they have?

Two breeds was an instant no from me (with some exceptions, ie is not lose sleep over someone breeding say Shitzu and Lasha apso), two litters a month is… not great, but not allowing to visit the home, that’s a huge red flag. Walk away.

Dodgy as hell - avoid.

Number of dogs in the house depends. Our pups breeder had mum, her daughter, grandma, aunt and her mums dog after she had died. It was lovely to meet the relatives and see what your pup may turn out like and they were all clearly loved pets. Stud (KC Champ) was brought in. I’d be wary of breeders owning the stud dog.

I own two dogs different breeds both from highly regarded long standing breeders. Both only bred 1 breed neither used their own stud dog despite the fact that one breeder owned a very successful stud dog, both were very prominent members of the specific breed club on committees etc international judges and considered to be experts on the breed. I researched them carefully before approaching them and took the view that the chances of either being not being legit were vanishingly unlikely. Both were happy for me to visit their homes, meet their dogs, asked me lots of question and have offered lifetime support.
Personally if I wanted another pedigree dog and assuming you don’t want a breed that’s a deformed monstrosity I would always go through the specific breed club either local or national and make myself familiar with who are prominent members, winning in the show ring (most clubs publish results) sitting on the breed club committee, these breeders will know everything about the breed the good and the bad be dedicated to maintaining it know what health tests etc are recommended and are likely to have lots of experience rearing puppies.

I think the breeder of my young dog owned about 4 dogs including a stud dog. The breeder of the old dog owned 3 no stud dog at the time.
I don’t understand the rationale for you not being allowed to visit them at home that for me is the big red flag. Size of house/garden wouldn’t worry me unless it was a large high energy dog. Many years ago we lived very near to a lady who bred and showed I think champion papillons or something very similar she regularly competed and won at Crufts she lived in a social housing flat with no garden. The dogs were her whole life she had about 8 of the funny little things all beautifully cared for brushed and turned out.

You are right - should have clarified I meant number of dogs rather than specifically five dogs!

No of dogs itself is not an issue - although anything more than 2 breeding bitches definitely is IMO...there's a breeder near me (KC registered) who has about 5 breeding bitches which I think is awful. Some of them have had 3 litters by the time they're four years old. Awful. I purposefully avoided her as she just treats the dogs like they're cash-cows

Thank you all 😊

If I understand correctly being KC registered means nothing. My friend bought a “KC registered” west highland terrier all paperwork was legit but the vet pointed out that the dog had been bred in Wales the house she’d bought it from was 150 miles away.

My point was exactly that as you say, it means nothing.

Someone who has five breeding bitches is not a breeder anyone should be using - yet she has KC membership! She's even an 'Assured Breeder'...

That being said, I would always go KC over some backyard breeder off Pets4Homes or Facebook! You just need to not get complacent and assume just because a dog is from a KC registered breeder that it and it's mother has had a happy life. I visited five different breeders before I got my most recent dog (and I visited her six times once I had decided on going with her).

With regard to breeding 2 breeds I’ve know a couple of very legit breeders where the husband breeds 1 breed and wife another (they met in the show ring) but they bred under separate prefixes had separate websites etc. During my research into finding a breeder I’ve also found breeders who have bred two different breeds sometimes they’ve explained why, they got older and didn’t want large high energy dogs in the house, or the two breeds are very similar eg cocker spaniels and springer spaniels and they trained gun dogs or the newer breed is very rare and they are introducing them into the UK. I can’t decide if this would put me off if all other things were good. Breeding multiple breeds would someone advertises round here who breeds 4 different unrelated but popular breeds and they’ve always got litters.
The other thing that would make me walk away is colour I have a friend who’s dog is apparently a pedigree dog but is blue merle (which they paid a lot more for) and blue merle doesn’t exist in the breed. The breed club specifically states that if you’re offered a blue merle it cannot be from pure bred parents. They made some flimsy excuse as to why this particular litter couldn’t be KC registered.
I think being prepared to walk away if something doesn’t feel right like you did OP is the key when buying a pedigree dog.
Don’t give up spend time carefully researching your breed/breeder. I’ve always had pedigree dogs from puppies and all have been happy well adjusted dogs and have long healthy lives.

No home visit and 2 breeds are reasons to avoid

Occasionally having 2 breeds is not a problem. For example, someone who goes shooting may have Labs and cocker spaniels which are both gun dogs and used for shoots.

The biggest red flag for me is not being able to visit the home. This is essential for you to be able to check the health of the puppy you are buying but also to see the health of mum, how puppy interacts with mum to get a feel for it etc. I would not buy a puppy I could not visit.

I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

Yeah no home visit to meet the breeders face to face and the mum, pups etc definitely very dodgy. Breeding females living together can synchronise their heats so being on heat together common. If both were successfully mated then you'd get 2 litters born together. Depends on the breeder then what breeds of females they own etc. Unlikely to have a breeder owning both a stud and the females as it'd be a nightmare during heats and you'd only be able to use him for your own girls a few times or risk inbreeding. In some cases breeders use guardians or co-owners for the females so they live with another family and go back to the breeder during their heat and for mating, whelping and bringing up the litter. That enables you to own more breeding females without having to house them all. You also get breeders selling females once they've finished breeding them and spayed them and show breeders selling off pups that don't fit the show standards.

They're selling on puppy farmed pups out of their house.

Sounds sketchy!

glad you’re gonna go fall in love at a rescue!