Small dog that's not a Terrier?

[Broodywuz]

Just that really
My DD is animal mad and wants her own dog (a family house dog really) We live on a farm and have working border collies which are mainly outside during the day and sleep in the utility at night. We have chickens and our door is wide open most of the time, especially in summer which is putting me off any terrier breed with a high prey drive. I've only ever had working breeds and not much experience with smaller dogs. Something that will sit and cuddle with DD but also happy to come for a decent walk with the other dog and not chase everything that moves! Top of the list at the moment is a King Charles spaniel, what do you think?

Bichons are lovely but definitely not keen walkers.

Mine has done many mountains in the Lakes such as Great Gable. If they’re kept fit then they’re fit enough to do what you want them to do. When younger would happily do a 6 hr walk in the hills.

But also happy to spend all day on the sofa!

And I used to live on a farm (with sheepdogs) and we had a JRT who did not chase the chickens but was excellent at ratting in the stables.

can you not just let the border collies in?

We have this. He’s gorgeous and was checked for breathing issues. Not a bitty bone in his body, so cuddly and very intelligent. I know many pugs have issues but we did lots of research, other than being a greedy, loud twat he is fine

Miniature schnauzer is the best dog in the world. I wouldn't have any other kind. Don't cast hair, beautiful, like walking, small enough to share the sofa, affectionate. Just fabulous.

OP needs a Coton De Tulear. A bit like a Bichon but up for as much walking as you want and also loves a bit of agility if you want to do that but absolutely loves a cuddle on the sofa too. Perfect little dog.

Another vote for a mini schnauzer 🤩

I was going to recommend a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. Our last one was lovely and we now have an 8mth old puppy. They are perfect family pets. Very adaptable, good with other animals and children. They can manage really long energetic walks or equally happy with shorter ones.

There are two provisos however.
1/they do not do well if left for hours alone. They want companionship a lot.

2/ I absolutely would not buy one unless it confirms to the Kennel Club Heart Clear Scheme as a minimum.

CKCS are 20x more likely to get early onset mitral valve disease (MVD) than any other breed. Very sadly our last dog had to be put to sleep at the age of 8. The scheme wasn't in place when we got him. Check out Cavalier Health Matters website online for lots of info about the scheme. As most cavs don't develop MVD until they are 5, you should ensure that both parents are Doppler heart tested with a green/clear result if they are under 5. It's also helpful to have the history of the grandparents. Any pup should come with certificates.

Also Google syringomyelia, which they can be prone to, especially through poor breeding.

Many online sites claim that their puppies have been extensively DNA health tested and Kennel Club registered. This means very little. Anyone can register with the KC. DNA tested only identifies those conditions caused by one gene. As syringomyelia and MVD are polygenic, they cannot be detected through DNA testing. However, the heart clear scheme has been shown to reduce the risk of MVD by 75%.

Now here comes the pricey bit. To get a well tested heart clear dog it will cost you. Expect to pay between 2-3k. However, our last dog cost us £4k in vets bills in the last 6 months of his life, not to mention his suffering and the heartache. So, in my view it is well worth spending money upfront.

Champ dogs, The Kennel Club Assured Breeders Scheme and The Cavalier Club UK provide info about good breeders puppies. The cavalier club have regional coordinators that can put you in touch with your closest breeders. There is also a Cavaliers UK FB group.

Do not buy from pets4homes and similar sites online. Most are from puppy farms, which have been placed in residential properties..The RSPCA has great advice on how to avoid inadvertently buying a farmed puppy. Also avoid at all costs Kelly's Kennels and Douglas Hall Kennels as they are Irish puppy farmers (fully licensed), that export puppies into the country using a pet shop trade loophole in the law (which should hopefully soon be rectified).

I cannot speak highly enough of this breed. They really are lovely dogs with less behavioural problems than cockers. Avoid cavalier crossbreeds for the most part (with a few exceptions) . Research has shown them to be no healthier and breeders tend not to have the parents heart tested on the cavi side.

I hope that this helps. I enclose a picture of my beautiful little 8mth old pup.

Another corgi vote but also a plea to investigate any possible breeders really carefully. There was a Jubilee inspired boom in puppy-farmed corgis, exacerbated by TikToks of 'cute' overweight waddling ones. We have a fantastic little boy, rescued from an arsehole unlicensed breeder with his siblings, but he has hip issues linked to exploitative careless breeding. He is an absolute joy, though.

Btw, don't be put of getting a cavalier. It is true that two countries in the world have now banned them. I do not agree with the bans personally. However, I do believe that they should only be allowed to be bred by special certified breeders, at least for 10 years or so until they have cleared up the high incidence of hereditary diseases particularly caused through poor breeding/puppy farming. Good breeders will test for coefficiency (check that both parents are as unrelated to each other as possible), check head size measurements to breed for a more broad headed dog to reduce the risk of syringomyelia (a painful condition whereby the brain can outgrow the size of the skull around the base of it's neck/spine due to poor breeding) and test the parents and grandparents for heart conditions (mitral valve disease).

I was reticent about getting another cavi puppy after our last dog died, hench why I did huge amounts of research into their health and that of other similar breeds. I also consulted our vet and the vet cardiologist about whether to go for another cavalier. They were of the view that we had been rather unlucky with our last dog, but felt that a heart tested well bred cavalier would be a better option than the alternatives that I proposed. In fact they both said that you should always pick the breed that is the best fit with your lifestyle and then aim to buy the healthiest version of it that you can.

In terms of prey drive, both of our cavaliers love to chase squirrels, birds and foxes. They would chase off other cats in our garden. However, they love our cats and curl up with them. They also have left the sheep, horse and cattle alone (we back into a farm) and don't chase domesticated/pet animals such as ducks, chickens and pet rabbits etc. they have both caught mice, rats and birds before, so they would almost certainly gobble up an escaped hamster if we had one.

My other suggestion would be a beagle. No idea about their prey drive, but are also good family digs, albeit slightly less cuddly.

The problem you’ll have IME as many years as a dog trainer is that low drive dogs aren’t going to want to do long walks and learn new things. Yes there are exceptions but it’s not the norm. Think again about a terrier. They do vary a lot. My Border is high drive (I wanted a potential competitive agility dog) but her relatives live happily with cats and chickens as they were exposed at a young age. Most farms in our rural area have some kind of terrier. You’ll face the same issues with any small working type breed. Shelties may be more up your street but again they’re high drive. Schnauzers have a similar drive to terriers.

A strong vote for a miniature schnauzer. We had corgis growing up but then switched to schnauzers. Corgis are excellent dogs and you’d be fine with both, but for the family aspect a schnauzer would be superior: no shedding, friendly and good with children. Very fun too! Ours have been brought up around chickens and have all been fine- very soft dogs.

Corgis can have quite strong personalities, so it would be important to have the time to put into training them, although with collies you’d be a dab hand at this already. They do make excellent farm dogs, but I’d go for a shorthair given how close the lovely fluffy tummies are to the floor! 😁

What an adorable little dog.X

My friend has had two cavachons. Both very chilled out, love to snuggle, love to play, happy with any level of exercise.

But if you have a family dog,it's not fair on the others if you let the family dog sleep in the house ect and have different rules for the ones that are working.
They should all be treated the same when not working and be inside in the warm

What about a cavapoo- they are mixed with poodles so health issues would be minimised as it's a cross breed. They are amazing dogs- the sweetness and loyalty of the cav but also the intelligence of a poodle

Here’s my cavapoo she’s the best dog I’ve ever had- friendly, intelligent, sweet and really chilled

The collies are very much working dogs, they are good with the kids but have no interest in them, they're obsessed with my husband and just sit looking at him waiting for a command when he's here. Also being on farm all day they can be very dirty would need bathed daily to come properly in the house.

@versacesafetpindress not true that as a crossbreed health issues are minimised. The dog can inherit issues from both sides of the cross. Plus the type of breeder who churns these crosses out is highly unlikely to do the necessary breed specific tests on parents?
Could a Tibetan Terrier (not actually a terrier) work?

Oh, I have the health profile for her going back three generations with vet certificates for both parents and grandparents so I'm afraid that's not always true!

I wouldn’t necessarily rule out a terrier - we live on a farm and have a Jagd Terrier (google them, not many people know what they are!!); they have an incredibly high prey drive but she lives with cats, chickens, sheep and a bearded dragon! She’s amazing with the kids and a fab ratter - she’s also killed foxes when they’ve been sniffing around the pet lambs! If she gets a scent from a fax she can be off BUT she will actually come back so her recall is pretty good!

A health “profile”? @versacesafetpindress you need specific health tests. Testing for issues such as eye problems or heart issues. Specialised tests not a quick once over by a vet.