When to let rescue dog off lead?

[Laguiri]

My rescue dog (around 9 months old) has been with me for 2.5 months. Her recall is pretty good in the garden but still not 100%. We’ve been going for walks for 2 months now. I’m still very wary of letting her off-lead, but am getting pressure from fellow walkers to do so. She’s hyper-attached (e.g. goes nuts if I leave her with someone else while I go for a pee behind a bush), BUT I’ve also seen how she loses it when a fox crossed our path: she would have gone like the wind. She’s a medium-small mongrel, impossible to tell what her genetics/instinct might be, but she’s clearly got prey drive (I also have a whippet, so know all about that 🙄). What have your experiences been? What’s your advice?

@Toastandcoldsaltedbutter that's fantastic

OP some great examples there to copy

Solve the my dog has no food drive issue but feeding half of breakfast and dinner on walks. It's the single Wauwatosa way to build a bond and connection with your dog.

All good behaviour gets rewarded instantly.

I use it to reward recall by throwing kibble in the air( loads of it)
And just as important as @Toastandcoldsaltedbutter said, the kibble is a reward every time the dog looks at you. If you did this with treats you'd have a fat dog fast.

Initially you need to have some high value treat to get the instant hell yeah this person is with coming back to response.

What works for every dog is (dog treats are mostly a waste of money)

Sausages (chopped up cocktail sausages us the easiest)
Roast chicken shredded
Cheese
Liver or pate

You can mix these with kibble and always have a pocket full.

Also please please bace a recall word that is not their name. I use here. Or to start with heeerreeeeee. Which over time becomes a short here
I teach all my fosters proper recall before they go to their new homes because it's a fundamental life skill that makes for much happier owners and dogs.

If you let them off and it fails then they will have had the reward of the chase of the fox etc, so I'd be really sure first. Can you travel to somewhere with easier terrain?

Solve the my dog has no food drive issue but feeding half of breakfast and dinner on walks. It's the single Wauwatosa way to build a bond and connection with your dog.

This is interesting. My dog used to get excited about treats on a walk but spit them out straight away, almost like he couldn't chew and walk and walk was more important so I stopped as I felt it was a waste.

Funny but irrelevant - My dog can't catch anything if you throw it in the air. Even a ball. He just opens his mouth and hopes for the best usually getting bopped on the nose of face.

You don’t mention the breed , but if it is anywhere Gundog adjacent google Wylanbriar, for sensible advice on recall/long lines etc. There is a Facebook page with video tutorials at a small charge.

I can only guess it makes them feel superior 🙄

👀 looks at our DDog who is also a rescue, with a prey drive and not 100% recall.

The answer would be never OP

My Romanian rescue is nearly 3 and only in the last few months have we been letting her off the longline.
Initially we booked a dog field ( I know this isn’t an option for OP), we used high value treats (cubes of cheese/roast chicken and then discovered a squeaky tennis ball was the best! I only use the ball for recall, then she has five minutes of play with it and it’s put away so it becomes a special reward when she comes to call.
We’re still very cautious where she’s let off, never when there’s small children around (not that she takes much notice of them) or traffic. We’re lucky that we can do it locally. Interestingly, if we’re somewhere strange to her she will stay very close to us, but that’s not to say that a rabbit or a deer wouldn’t override that! So far she’s not chased off but I’m very aware it can happen 😊

@Creampies

I've had dogs for over 25 years so walked a very long distance with them, and never seen a dog kill an animal! Yes the jumping up is annoying but that's poor training. None of mine have approached anyone, they certainly don't jump up at anyone, not even me and they have all been trained to 100% recall by 12 weeks. Current dog is the best as also is trained to hand signals and even to be sent left, right etc. I have only had collies. Mine also were trained never to accept food from strangers, or in the park more generally, it's a really handy thing to do because they don't obsess over food outside eg picnics

Wow! Some great advice and ideas here. Thank you all so much. 12 years ago when my whippet was a young dog in his prime with generally excellent recall, I was pretty much resigned to the fact that he would take off after any animal he spotted. I used an Acme dog whistle so he could always find his way back to me once the chase was over, but my god! I spent quite a few horrible half hours in the hills hoping and praying he would come back (I shall draw a veil over the time he chased a young wild boar straight at me ☹️). I don’t want that again. So, I shall be ordering Sexier than a Squirrel today; I like the idea of a structured but fun training course, and I shall order a long line for use on cart track walks. I feel quite chuffed with myself that I’ve already been rewarding her every time she looks at me when we’re out on walks, something that simply occurred to me and that I never did with my whippet, and I’m lucky that she’s very food driven. I generally use tiny training dots as a reward and cut down a bit on her kibble, but also sausages for things she’s more reluctant to learn. Am feeling quite excited to have a dog training project to keep us busy over winter 😊. Again, thank you to everyone for your advice.

Rather than making a blanket unenforceable statement and making yourself look ridiculous why don’t you use some brains and common sense?
Its pretty bloody obvious from the OPs photo that she is not walking her dog in a busy urban park, I also live in a very similar area in fact if the OP hadn’t said that she lived in another country she could be my neighbour. When I walk my dogs I rarely meet anyone, on a warmish weekend I might meet 1 other person and on a hot summer day on a bank holiday I might find 3 people on our local beach. My dog doesn’t bark in children’s faces or make peoples clothes dirty or anything else like that because he rarely meets anyone (and he’s not interested in strangers). So to insist he’s muzzled and on a lead at all times would be pointless and unenforceable.
Bur I do agree in busy urban parks/popular beaches etc that there should at the very least be areas where dog must be on leads and possibly assuming sufficient space dog free areas and that this should be properly enforced with on the spot fines for those who don’t comply. Also again where sufficient designated areas where dogs can be let off leads.

Dogs and humans can happily coexist but both dog owners and those who don’t like them need to acknowledge and respect each other’s point of view.

I actually like dogs, it’s irresponsible owners that can’t control or look after their pets properly that I don’t like

Nobody likes them Creampie. It’s hard to believe you like dogs though if you think they should all be muzzled in public.

I’ve spent my entire life around animals dogs horses farm animals and there is no such a thing as perfect recall or horse/cow that never kick/spooks/does something out of character. Even the best behaved most reliable well handled. consistently dog cow horse can have an off day and do something totally out of character because they are not machines. As owners/handlers/grooms/dairyman we will never have full and total control over the animals in our care. A farmer near here was recently killed by a cow, at the inquest the coroner was told the farmer had spent his life working with cows, the breed was known to be exceedingly placid and the individual cow was also believed to be exceedingly placid cow and well handled but out of the blue she turned on the farmer and killed him.
Dog owners and those who share a space where dogs go do need to accept that however much training is put into a dog they can have an out of character moment no owner can guarantee that they are in control all of the time.
I agree that there are some bloody irresponsible owners out there but there are also some pretty daft non dog and dog owners out there. In my previous home I’ve met people out on a walk that squeak and make excited noises and wave their hands around near my dog about a foot above his head and then moan when he comes closer and jumps up making their clothes dirty. I used to know an old lady who scattered treats far and wide whenever she saw a dog despite being asked not too and then moaned when dogs clocked her and came rushing over nearly knocking her over. People who actively encourage their children to approach a dog and again moan when the dog licks their child or dog owners who walk their aggressive or highly reactive dog often off their leads in an area where off lead dogs are everywhere and then moan when dogs approach their dog.
Having said this I was recently in a London park dogs and people were everywhere it seemed to me that most were happily existing side by side neither were causing the other one any obvious difficulty/distress.

I saw a horrific mauling by a dog to another dog. It was in a public area with families enjoying the sunshine. If attacking dog had been muzzled, the victim would have survived .

To be fair to @Creampies if all dogs were muzzled then it would be safer. I don't think it's fair, personally. Dogs suffering again for the shit actions of humans because we don't seem to control or train them. DP is a masssive advocate for muzzles on all dogs and we both love dogs!

We say that as the owners of an American Akita who is OK but regularly, an off lead dog runs up and then goes for him (apparently Akitas naturally piss other dogs off because of their up ears and up tails) with several injuring me and him in the process. One time I was on my own batting off two Labradors, pulling him away (should have just let him protect himself) and when one went away the other came back. It was a nightmare. I don't muzzle him so he can protect himself and he's scared of them but if the other dogs were muzzled it wouldn't be as much of an issue when they come for him. All of it would just be reduced of people trained their dogs and controlled them. Writing that has similarities to the American gun argument...

2.5 months isn’t long to have built a bond, which is another key element to off lead training. We didn’t even start with our retired greyhound in the garden till we’d had him 3 months. He’d love going for a mooch in your area.

Some good tips above. Another one (unless I’ve missed it) is to start to practise the off lead training “in the wild” at the end of the walk when your dog’s tired and less likely to go off on one.

Any way I realise that you are the the responsible dog owners on this thread, because you are actually doing the right thing and putting in the work, it just grinds my gears when I see things like people letting their dog play with the sheep etc. it must be because I’m near a popular tourist spot that brings out all types of owners

@Corgiowner yes it will never be perfect. I'm a country girl and have horses and I know how sometimes instinct negates all the training in the world.

But you can get pretty close. I should caveat that even with my as near as perfect recall (recalled her from more than one deer, sheep that had got out, horses, all other dogs) - she basically gun dog trained - I am lucky that I can always walk her with clear lines of sight, that I'm always aware of what's going on and I've taught her to check in every min or so and only go free when I give her a release signal.

Now she's a food oriented lab but it's taken years to get to this point and I train her every single walk. I use much the same techniques with all my foster dogs.

If I'm not 100% about the dog or environment they stay on the long line or if they are almost there drop the long line and am super, super aware of what's going on/round the corner and always ready to step on/grab the longline. .

I do some dog sitting though only friends of friends and they all stay on the longline even if people say they have good recall.

My current one apparently has great recall "unless she sees another dog". So not great recall then.

Totally agree with you, but you always get the 'experts' who believe their training is foolproof abd their animals are 100% ... just goes to show how little they really know animals!

Nobody who likes dogs would say they need to be on lead and muzzled at all times in public.

Doesn't sound like you've fostered a sighthound @Shannith
No treat can compete with the thrill of a chase.
I used to let her off, felt pressure to do so and also I prefer having dogs off lead, but she's always on a long line now and it's much less stressful. Recall is great when me and my treats (high value) are the best thing about but, if we are not, she's off like a shot.

I don't see why the dog can't just stay on a long lead. My dogs do. The only time they run completely loose is in our large garden.

To be able to recall any dog from anything is incredible ability! I have never known anyone able to do that 100%

Do you train/make tutorials? Because with you could earn a fortune and help thousands!

The secret is patience and consistency - which unfortunately most people don't do it .

I generally use a long lead and let it trail behind the dog when I'm very rural and away from others if they have passed the long lead stage .

Also always long lead to a harness never a collar !

You will get there - you are doing right by your dog , ignore everyone else :)

I'll caveat again. I have fostered sighthounds and I didn't let them off lead.

The original question was about letting the dog off lead. When I've got a sighthound that's what secure fields are for. If it's a sighthound or has a lot of sighthound in it then it's too risky for everyone.

I've also fostered lots of dogs that I was told had no recall and it was pointless trying.

I got most of them as safe as you can get in terms of rock solid recall and if I couldn't they stayed on a held or dropped long line. As a condition of their adoption. It's a small local rescue and I can have dogs for up to 5 months before they are rehomable and we stay in touch with their adopters. For context we've realised 24 dogs in 2 years.

It's a long, sometimes boring, repetitive process. I don't train it so much as always train it. Most people don't have the time or patience. Can't be done a hour a week in a secure field. It's starts in the house and really never ends.

There are some breeds that are easier. Labs, GSD, collie mixes. But I've had all sorts and lots that it was anyone's guess.

I'm often the person on the end of the lead of the fear reactive dog so I make it a mission to make sure I'm never the person shouting "don't worry he's friendly" to an on lead dog.

As far as I'm concerned it's the most important thing you can teach and I put the hours in.

I'm not a trainer, but I have had the chance to learn from a lot of good ones through the rescue. I get dogs that have been terribly mistreated or abandoned and we have not history.

So it's my job (volunteer job) to learn and apply as much as I can. These are dogs that have often been chucked out because they were "badly behaved". They weren't, they were badly trained.