Getting dog assessed as NOT type?

[Leypt1]

We adopted our dog 2 years ago from dog's trust as a "bull lurcher". Mix was unspecified but we've always assumed staffy/greyhound cross as he's blocky in the face like a staffy but taller, gangly and with a deep chest like a sighthound.

It would be fairly obvious when applying common sense that he's not an XL bully as he's not really chunky enough, but looking at the description he does meet some of the characteristics (not sure about "significant number of characteristics" - what does this mean??) and we're very worried.

My question is - has anyone in this position sought a definitive assessment from a vet or the kennel club that their dog is NOT type? A DNA test etc. wouldn't help as the guidance states that only adherence to the (fairly woolly) description counts

He has his annual vet checkup today - should I be asking for their opinion, or even a written confirmation that I could have to hand if we're ever challenged?

Or should we be applying for exemption? The only thing is that this would consign him to a life of massively restricted freedoms, which we don't want to do unless it's absolutely necessary

Thinking about it, I would move out of London to a house with a secure field if I thought that's what it would take to keep him safe...but again this is a big life change if it's not needed!

Vets are being quite cautious, I’m told. I’d ask their advice but not directly ask what breed they think he is.

obligatory photos

Thanks, and yes this is the obvious risk - that we ask someone and they just assess him as type :(

The question then being, what do we do? Just pre-emptively get him registered as exempt?

Have you been in this situation?

Anyone who would be involved in assessing dogs would know right away he's a bull lurcher, the big staffy head is as plain as day. I would not be applying for any kind of exemption and risk an unnecessary label.
He is a handsome lad!

I know this isn't worth much, but I would most certainly NOT look at that dog and think "XL Bully type". I see loads of lurcher types not disimilar to him on my dog walks. If this legislation catches dogs like that it is even more of a mess than I thought. xx

Personally, I wouldn't do anything. He looks nothing like an XL Bully.

You could say to the vet something like: I am not requesting a formal opinion as to his type, but would like clarification on matters X,Y,Z. That would surely give you an opportunity to discuss all that is needed without verging into labelling territory.

Thanks everyone - this is a bit reassuring!

And I've seen posts from people saying their labradors technically meet the description as set out (but would obviously never be assessed as type)😬

I'm pretty sure I read it's something like 60% to meet the 'significant number of characteristics' criteria so having a few measurements that match probably wouldn't be enough to 'type' him. That said (and the whole problem with 'typing' in general) some of it will be down to the individual assessor's judgement so you can never be sure. Not helpful I realise and the same horrible situation so many owners of clearly not XL bullies now find themselves in due to the ridiculous idea that 'typing' works

The issue with this is the vet could note the conversation down and it could cause problems down the line re. insurance claims. You do need to be very careful what you say to some vets unfortunately.

And I agree with this, my DM has an American Bulldog x staff (who also looks nothing like an XL) and that's what she's eventually decided after much worry/panic/research. The chances of her dog coming to the police's attention for any reason are minimal so hopefully it's the right decision.

The thing is, I think when people think "XL bully" they picture a mega-dog like the larger grey one, with cropped ears et al., but the government guidance includes a picture of this brown dog as a reference point...is this not basically a staffie??

He looks very strong! Strangely his lying down photo is more lurcher-greyhound looking.
Is there a specific dna to check out?

Is there a specific dna to check out?

DNA is meaningless. The government is going by measurements only.

Here's a picture of an actual staffie as another comparison point, taken from https://www.countryliving.com/uk/wildlife/dog-breeds/a42433904/staffordshire-bull-terriers/

I guess what this goes to show is that "type" based legislation is terrible

the government guidance includes a picture of this brown dog as a reference point...is this not basically a staffie??

Some staffy's will fall foul of the guidance unfortunately, especially the larger ones and American ones. The advantage you'll have is that your dog is much taller and much less muscular than your average bully dog, and is therefore very unlikely to fall under "type".

I would be extremely careful what you say to the vets, anything with XL bully on your notes (even if to clarify he is NOT) could hinder a claim in the future. I don’t think I would say anything tbh.

He's adorable, he has a Staffy head on a lurcher body, love it!

He looks nothing like an XL bully, I would just keep going about your day!

I have a wee Staffy and I've had someone ask me already what I'm going to do when the ban starts...nothing!

As you adopted your dog from Dogs Trust, I would go back to them and ask. They will have people familiar with the legislation and will have assessed the dogs in their care, and ought to be willing to help.

I can't see your dog falling into the 'type'; bull lurcher is very plausible based on the pictures. But I'm not an expert.

And I've seen posts from people saying their labradors technically meet the description as set out (but would obviously never be assessed as type)😬

There's a lot of fearmongering and misinformation going around at the moment.

Shows how pointless BSL is really.

OP - don't do anything. He is a lurcher. He looks like a lurcher. The best thing you can do is make sure he's well trained and is a great ambassador for his breed type. I honestly wouldn't worry and no there is no 'my dog isn't a random set of measurements' test.

I know a few agility people who compete dogs that could fall into type and now they face the dilemma of registering them but then them being excluded from training and shows. Anyone who trains their dog to competition standard has put thousands of hours not just into the training but the making sure they are comfortable around the ring as a dog that isn't won't run well. It's all so wrong and unfair and ultimately pointless.

The vet may take it on themselves to say something.
I think I’d train him to a muzzle just in case. It doesn’t need to be a nasty process.

He’s a lovely boy and I can why you’d worry.

I believe it’s necessary legislation, but unfortunately it’s going to catch more people than necessary.

Look at his smiley face! What a good boy.

His close up shows a longer nose that you’d expect for a staffy or other fully bull type. Plus he’s longer in the legs as you say.

I think I’d train him to a muzzle just in case. It doesn’t need to be a nasty process.

TBH, all dogs should be muzzle-trained anyway as you never know when they may need to wear one.

Thanks everyone! We just got back from the vet, he wore his muzzle and took all the prodding and poking (including his kennel cough nasal spray) like a champ.

I asked in a general sense whether they'd seen an uptick in appointments ahead of 31 December (no, not really), and whether she'd had anyone asking for a certification of non-type (no, it's not really something they do, and where a dog is borderline, they've just recommended applying for exemption).

She did say (unsolicited) that she thought his snoot was too long and that he was too tall to need exemption, so I'm going to try not to worry.

I'd not worry. His nose and ears are very lurcher like. Far too slender to be an XL Bully. Too tall and not muscular enough. Anyone with any sense will agree with you that he doesn't match the type.