Please help with rescued golden retriever

[Unreasonablyextravagant]

After much discussion around getting a dog, we have fostered an 18 month old golden retriever with a view to adopting. He is a lovely boy, a bit jumpy and doing a bit of humping but was neutered by the rescue last week so this should calm down.

He has been alone with me since Friday night and as he has settled his bad habits are becoming clear. He seems like an overgrown puppy - he didn’t know his own name, didn’t own a toy until now and spent his life either in a crate or a tiny concrete yard. He has never had dog food, only human scraps, doesn’t know what to do with a ball. He walks surprisingly well on a lead but has zero recall.

When he gets excited he jumps, and looks to “mouth” whatever is nearby. My hand, my slipper, the sofa, the throw blanket. His mouth is wide open and his teeth are sharp so this along with his size, is intimidating even though I don’t believe it to be aggressive.

He is very clever and this has improved in the short time he’s been with me - I want to believe this is a fixable issue with training.

However, I have two young children (8 &5) so have obvious concerns. They have met him today for the first time (with their dad over the weekend) and he has jumped at both of them, tried to mouth at them. He has been heavily supervised so no one has come to any harm.

I have had dogs from puppy before, but not in some time.

Is this a disaster waiting to happen or something we can realistically work through?

If you're on Facebook, there is an excellent group of trainers who have provided guides for almost everything dog related.
If the guides don't answer everything you need to know, you can post and ask questions.

It's Dog Training Advice and Support.

Excellent, delighted to see that Facebook group, I’m making my way there now!

@iloveeverykindofcat such a sad start for your boy but great to hear how he is with you now even in spite of his background.

We will be introducing him to our older lab friend soon and hopefully she will be a good influence!

I must say this difference in this boy in 5 days is remarkable and I have fallen head over heels in love. He is the best and although we have a long way to go I’m absolutely certain that if we put the effort in he will add so much joy to our family.

I resisted getting a dog for such a long time, especially a big dog but my partner talked me round and now here I am, mad about him lo and it seems the feeling is mutual.

Our eight month old lab goes crackers whenever the grandchildren arrive, mind you so does the spaniel. They love little people. Stealing food you need to be firm but they'll still pull it off now and again.

You've picked a fabulous family pet. Enjoy.

Hi everyone, I knew I’d be back! We’re doing quite well with a lot of the settling in, but this “mouthing” aspect is really causing me concern at this stage.

We’ve booked in with a trainer, understandably there’s nothing available until the new year and I’ve been reading lots of useful resources on all aspects of training. (Apparently I was talking in my sleep about recall the other night 😂)

However, the mouthing / biting. I’m struggling to identify if this aggressive or not, have read loads on body language etc and my gut is telling me we have a reactive dog on our hands.

He will actively seek out contact, he clearly wants pets but will quickly start to move his head around, mouth open, teeth exposed looking for something to grab. The lips are pulled back and the muzzle is wrinkled. When he “bites” he is not using force but his teeth are big and sharp, so ow.

When he’s redirected he looks for something else inappropriate to bite like the sofa, skirting board etc and a toy has maybe a 50/50 hit rate for distraction.

We’ve tried to identify a pattern of how / where he may not want to be touched but we aren’t coming up with anything. Last night was probably the worst he’s been with this behaviour and I admit to being a bit overwhelmed.

I can’t trust him at all at the minute, with myself let alone the kids.

This all sounds like quite unusual behaviour for a retriever and I’m hoping some of the wise voices here might have some advice or guidance!

It does sound like play to me. I’d keep shoving a toy in. If he can’t check himself then remove yourself.

My last dog was people fear aggressive. She would be very conflicted, ask for attention then freeze which we knew was her not being comfortable. Dogs don’t mouthe when they are FA. They generally (but not always) snap, nip then bite. Some hang on. Some don’t. Lips back can be play.

Hang on until you see the trainer but from your description it sounds like inappropriate play. I’d not leave him with the kids in any case. Do you do any self control games with him? It’s your choice? Thinks like that? They can really help.

My eldest golden is now 3 and such a gentle sweet dog. When she was younger though she frequently had me in tears because of her mouthing and ?biting. I seemed to be the one she chose to do it to more than any one else in the house. At the time I worried it was aggression but looking back now (with the hindsight of a second dog) I genuinely think she was trying to play but was treating me like she would have another dog. Both of our dogs now play fight with proper teeth bared and wrinkled muzzles as you say but there is no pressure behind their mouthing and they stop instantly if you want them to and then just do the big “golden smile” so I know there is no aggression there. When we got the second, she used the oldest one as her plaything so we didn’t get mouthed in the same way at all. Looking back now I think the oldest just didn’t know how to control her self but it definitely seemed almost aggressive at the time when I was covered in cuts and bruises!
We now have a huge number of nylabone “extreme chewer” chews of different flavours and shapes and they will both spend hours chewing them and they seem to last forever. I think that helps with their desire to have something in their mouths.
Apologies for the long post but I just wanted to say that it won’t last forever and there will be a lovely dog at the end of it!! She is the gentlest dog you could ever meet now and they are such a lovely breed.

Please, please do not give up on this beautiful boy. Goldens are the absolute best but even with a normal upbringing their puppy stage lasts longer than most breeds.
What you’re doing sounds right and the rescue centre should be providing help as well. With love, patience, good food and exercise the chances are he will become a truly wonderful dog.

Does he freeze before 'biting'? Or does he have loose body language? When we assess dogs we look contextually - wagging tail doesn't always mean happy for example, yawning not always tired.

My adolescent terrier will turn her head to mouthe me if she forgets herself. It's becoming less and less now and she will often stop, then dash off to get a toy to shove at me repeatedly. That's why redirecting onto toys rather than time outs or punishment are much more long term valuable.

Our first GR grew up with a 3 year old and a 5 year old. The vet advised that in our circumstances we get this breed and we haven’t looked back.
We’re now on our third. Aged 13 months, she displays many of the behaviours you describe, is still growing up, and far better than she was six months ago. Considering what yours has been through, I think he has the makings of a star.
Mature dogs, in our experience, are super calm. The postman is looking forward to her being as chilled out as her predecessor - lying below the letter box with delivered mail on her side and not batting an eyelid. It made him chuckle and created warm memories.
Our first GR always accompanied the carol singing group. She was the Nana in Peter Pan, renowned for adoring children. Our second was inseparable from our DGC. Once, in a coffee lounge admitting dogs, we were aware of uncertain onlookers until she quietly tucked herself in round our legs and ever so gently took titbits. Hearts soon melted, people relaxed and she received lots of adoring smiles.
Does it seem we’re besotted by the breed?
🤣
We find them marvellous dogs. I’m sure you will too. Your children are in for a treat.

Quite a lot to reply to so I’ll try to get everything in one post. Thank you all, these nice messages are actually making me a bit emotional - please understand I don’t want to give up on him, I desperately want to make it work but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t conflicted because if we get it wrong, the consequences could be unthinkable.

I’m torn too as we can’t get a trainer for at least 3 weeks and that seems so far away when I’m worried about aggression.

@Newpeep really interesting thank you. He appears to be relaxed, then gets overexcited which would tie in with inappropriate play. However he also starts the “biting” if we’re trying to move him - for example, he’s overly jumpy / excitable and we want to remove him from the living room. For clarity, this is a gentle move on our part but it’s almost as if it’s response to being told off? We have been wondering though if he sees this as part of a game.

I”l’m not sure what you mean by “your choice” games, would you mind telling me a bit more please?

@Princessmardybum this has really, REALLY helped. It’s the full lip back / wrinkled muzzle that’s scaring me most being honest. We can see him trying to control the urge though.

@NoIsACompleteSent ”Considering what yours has been through, I think he has the makings of a star.”

That has just done me in 😭

I can’t express enough how much we want to figure him out. I can deal with everything else, the comedic food thieving, calming down the jumpiness, the occasional toileting accident, stealing anything not nailed down - all annoying but manageable. It is literally this one problem that I’m afraid of.

I think I need someone with the relevant knowledge to actually see this first hand and give me some reassurance.

Ok, the moving, chuck a treat out and tell him to 'find it' so he's having to do something to get the treat. Path of least resistance, pick your battles etc etc. Another way is teaching then asking for a hand touch although that depends on how aroused he is with hands. I would never forceably move a dog unless an emergency as if they are over aroused it can turn into aggression only because they don't yet have the self control to think 'whoah there, let me think about this for a minute' - that comes with age and training to a point.

It's your choice - good video here. Teaches dogs to think before they act and if they wait they get what they want. Wait and stay training (all very fun, positive and reward based) also helps with this. I personally don't ask mine to wait for meals as this is a basic need and they can get frustrated. Meals are free. Treats need to be earned in a variety of ways.

As I said I have a terrier and she is high drive and very smart. I know all about lack of impulse control and frustration but all of the above have really helped her just stop and think. I also do quite a bit of engage disengage around other stimuli but I'd say for now, work on the easy house stuff and get some control there before moving it up.

You've got this.

‘Ours’ (13 months) “bites” in that she just likes to have someone’s wrist or hand in her mouth but she’s always very gentle. Her side teeth (huge, I appreciate) don’t press on flesh or hurt us. It’s a barely noticeable delicate nibbling - all very soft. The only time it’s a problem is if I have a drink in my hand!
If yours misjudges the mouthing, pull your hand away quickly and say, “Ow!” He’ll pick up on this and learn. So gentle is the breed that GRs are renowned for carrying an uncooked egg in their mouths without piercing the shell. It’s true. At shoots the breed is used to retrieve prey without causing injury.
It’s the back teeth which are used for grinding and can cause pain, a mistake I once made feeding something at the wrong angle to GR1!
I’d better not tell DS1 who owns ‘our’ third about yours or he’ll be kidnapping him! (His lives with us during office hours/nights out/holidays. Prior to covid, GR2 spent more time with us than with DS1!)

“The lips are pulled back and the muzzle is wrinkled.”
You’re right to be wary I think.
“When he “bites” he is not using force but his teeth are big and sharp, so ow.”
It’s rather like seeing granny in bed in Little Red Riding Hood, isn’t it?
GR2 and GR3 love me calmly and repeatedly stroking the length of their front legs, from shoulder to tip of the paw.

@Newpeep thanks for the link - I haven’t had a chance to watch yet but that will be tonight’s homework when I get the kids to bed!

We have been working on wait / stay and that is rapidly improving so clearly we have a clever boy. Also fair what you’ve said about choosing battles - I think we are so keen to avoid embedding bad behaviours that perhaps we are trying to manage too much at once. My head is spinning never mind the dogs.

@NoIsACompleteSent granny in bed is exactly the image and that’s made me feel all uncomfortable! We’ve had a really good day today, he so wants to be loved and perhaps he just doesn’t know how to interact yet. Maybe in a few years time I’ll be here, waving the golden retriever flag for someone else who’s unsure 😂

I doubt it’ll be years before you wave the flag. I’ve forgotten if you’ve had a dog before so ignore me if I’m redundant here.
Frequently touch him - legs, ears, mane on his chest, (some can feel unsure if you stroke the top of the head between the ears and jolt their head back), flat of his back. They love being touched.
Frequently tell him (with deep conviction) what a “good boy” he is.
If you want him to move out of the living room lure him out with a tiny piece of cooked chicken/ sausage/ cheese/ fish/ treat. Wrap it in your fist, present the opposite side of said fist to his nose and let him smell it. He’ll instantly and closely follow your hand to the desired place. Then open your hand, let him eat it from your palm, stroke and praise him.

He’ll be devoted to you. x

@NoIsACompleteSent all good solid advice, thank you. I have owned dogs before, so although it’s been a while a lot of it does come naturally which has been lovely.

I don’t think he knows his size, he’s lying on top of me on the sofa now and don’t I know about it!

Sorry. That sounds perfect for both of you. 🦮 x

Does he have a quiet space for himself for downtime/sleep, eg a crate or separate room? Sometimes when they have a crazy mouthing session it can be because they are overtired.

His new life sounds much stimulating than his old life, it could well be quite overwhelming. Providing him with some much needed rest, and teaching him to have an "off switch" can be really valuable.

I’m probably going to get shouted at for this but our goldie was a terror as an adolescent - his mouthing was awful and it was accompanied by “play” attacking where he knocked me over and really hurt me on walks (this was on lead) and then hooked onto an arm. I had some awful bites and became quite scared to go out with him.

Anyway, we used to bring old rags everywhere and that was how we distracted him, but I also used a little bitter apple spray - dogs hate the smell apparently, but it’s completely harmless! So we’d distract with a rag and if he continued, a quick burst of bitter apple before his teeth got my arm and locked on. Did the trick for us. And obviously cos of being a goldie, he soon learned that the mere appearance of the bitter apple bottle meant “stop being a twat”.

sorry if suggesting this is considered wrong, and cruel to dogs or anything, it was either bitter apple occasionally or rehoming him.

Halti collars also helped us massively to control him on walks. He’s 44 kilos of prime twat, so he can cause a lot of damage!