The ABC's of dog training

[nottaotter]

Can someone explain to me the ABC's of dog training?

Also if you are using treats to desensitise to something are you changing the dogs emotional state or can you end up rewarding the current (eg fear/over excited) emotional state?

Treats aren’t desensitising - that’s slow steady exposure in tiny steps, keeping the animal under threshold each time. Treats are counter conditioning. You tend to CC if the reaction is too extreme for Desensitisation to get them in a state for that (but not always).

Not sure about the ABC you are referring to.

You can’t reinforce an emotion, just a behaviour. So if the dog barks at other dogs for example then you can reward the bark but to be effective you need to get the treat/play in there BEFORE the bark when the dog just clocks the other dog so other dog = good stuff.

@Newpeep thank you. The ABC thing stands for Antecedent-Behavior-Consequence.

Ive googled it but confused as to what an example would be. And how it ties in with desensitising and counter conditioning.

I use treats for ChenDog to desensitise him - it’s all about treating at the right time, so I allow him to notice something at a distance for a moment or two and then mark it with a “yes!” (I know others use a clicker but I never got on with them) and high value treat. Gradually you can narrow the distance and allow them to notice for a bit longer, then mark/treat. If they’re lunging/barking you’re too close and they probably won’t take the treat.

You need to do some pre-work on that though, so lots of mark/treat so they start to associate the marker with a treat and look at you as spine as they hear the marker. I mark/treat every time he does a command, or looks at me as we’re walking etc etc and that way he’s more likely to engage with the desensitising.

Hope that’s right and someone doesn’t come along and tell me I’ve been doing it wrong!

An example of ABC would be
Antecedent: owner says "sit"
Behaviour: dog sits
Consequence: a treat

It doesn't tie in with ds/cc as ABCs are operant conditioning whereas ds/cc is classical conditioning. Of course, if you want to get technical there's always a little bit of classical conditioning happening!

The first thing is to train your dog to pay attention to you. This is good behaviour, it gets a treat.

Touch - dog noses your hand on command of touch and gets a treat.
Me - dog looks at you and gets rewarded.

Dog learns that ignoring things and paying attention to owner is a happy, safe, rewardable behaviour. Owner learns how to distract dog in a happy safe way.

Then you can start applying to more distracting or distressing situations.

It doesn’t tie in. It’s more about choice based training. I reward my terrier when she chooses to come to me on walks for example. I rarely call her. Consequence for her is she gets snacks every time she comes to me thus she never goes far! Now she’s got that down I sometimes use a release so the reward is environmental. That’s a good example of ABC. It’s a different type of conditioning.

As already explained desensitisation is slowly increasing the dogs tolerance levels to sounds and situations. YouTube has lots of videos for this.

Dog training is about rewarding the behaviour you want while ignoring the behaviour you don't want.

You can use rewards as a lure to entice the wanted behaviour.

If you are looking at advanced or specific dog training you can also introduce a low voice "oh no" comand if they do something wrong... however I only use it if I have a succession of comands for desired behaviour eg wait> come >sit> down> roll over = reward. If the dog ignores any of the comands (sit is popular in the sequence) it's a oh no... and start from sit to reinforce the behaviour.

Thank you everyone, its great to get real life examples .
@Newpeep I have a terrier x for the first time after greyhounds/lurchers.

What do you do when she starts sniffing and digging? Also ours is so feisty at home, she has to be first through the doorways, first to investigate anything etc. If you try to correct her, only slightly stern voice or hold her she can get riled up, not aggressively at all but very over excited like she's in a zone.

She is getting a bit better actually now she is 18 months she naturally seems to have more self control.

@FoamRoller so can you use CC and desensitising for the same situation in an interchangeable way?

I don’t correct mine. I manipulate and manage her environment so she can only make the choices i want her to. It’s easier than you think. Every time she makes a good choice she gets rewarded. Every time she makes a poor one I look at why.

Terriers are not naturally handler focused dogs. They are independent problem solvers. So by correction you’re on to a loser really. It’s also normal for them to want to be involved. Mine waits to go through a door because I’ve made it more rewarding to do that than charge through so she chooses the rewarding option.

If mine sniffs I let her. She doesn’t dig at all. We play lots of games and she attends agility and obedience (which is games based) once a week so her enrichment needs are met. She’s still a pup at 15 months so still a way to go but we’ve had no problems with ‘undesirable’ (to us) behaviour using these methods. Terriers are really trainable if you understand them.

Interesting about you saying they are independent as she often takes herself off to be on her own in a little sunspot in the house. I always let her dig as she seems to love it, but at some point I have to get her back to continue walking! I did try the not correcting her at all, but I realised she is so smart she would do the unwanted behaviour in order to get a treat.

So she dive bombs the older dogs, which I can't ignore, I tried calling her away for a treat, which worked the first few times until she realised dive bombing equals treats!

You need to set her up to succeed. So if you think she’s in a dive bombing mood then make sure she can’t do it. Yes if she keeps doing it, gets called away for a treat she’ll keep doing it. We have a cat. Terrier isn’t a threat to him but shed be a pain if we let her. So we don’t.

If she sniffs or digs on a walk then let her. The second she puts her head up to look at you big party. Dogs need to sniff so you need to allow time for that.

Look at her day in general. Meals in puzzle toys, classes etc will help her generally. Terriers are busy dogs and also need fairly decent sleeps. I can promise you that ‘correction’ and punishment will get you nowhere with most dogs but even less far with a terrier. Look at manipulating her environment like I described. Help her make better choices.

𝐓𝐞𝐫𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐫𝐬, 𝐇𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐝𝐬 & 𝐇𝐮𝐬𝐛𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐬

Why did we choose the dog that we have? What was it about that particular breed or cross or mixed breed that attracted us to him?

Often our choice is governed by size, their looks that please us, type of coat, shaggy, smooth, colour.

How many of us choose a breed because we actually like the behaviour that they have been specifically bred for over the generations?

Not the behaviour that we can read about in the breed club description of them:
Border Collie - excellent at herding sheep.

German Shepherd - great guard dog.

Chihuahua - fabulous lap dog.

Beagle - great at following a scent.

Bull Terrier - particularly good with people.

No not those behaviours, these ones:
Border Collie - will herd and nip the children when they are running about, will be sound sensitive and not cope well with traffic and busy households.

German Shepherd - will bark ferociously at all of your visitors.

Chihuahua - will resource guard your lap.

Beagle - will follow a scent to timbuktu and not hear you calling.

Springer Spaniel - will resource guard anything he picks up if there is the slightest chance that you have previously taken items from him as a puppy and especially if that was accompanied by a stern telling off for taking it.

Cocker Spaniel - will resource guard anything he picks up if there is the slightest chance that you have previously taken items from him as a puppy and especially if that was accompanied by a stern telling off for taking it.

Cockapoo - will resource guard anything he picks up if there is the slightest chance that you have previously taken items from him as a puppy and especially if that was accompanied by a stern telling off for taking it.

Golden Retriever - will resource guard anything he picks up if there is the slightest chance that you have previously taken items from him as a puppy and especially if that was accompanied by a stern telling off for taking it.
(No prizes for guessing what we get posts about the most)

Labrador - Should be the same but they are a bit goofy so less likely to.

Sighthounds - Saluki, Borzoi, Greyhound, Lurcher et al - will chase small furries that they spot in the distance. When playing with other dogs will bring them down either by grabbing back legs or the back of the neck or the back.

Terriers - will dig, will go down rabbit holes, badger sets, drain pipes.

And then the breed temperament descriptions and what they really mean ..

"Aloof" won't like strangers

"Wary of strangers" won't like strangers

"Naturally independent" won't be eager to please

"Loyal to his master" won't like strangers

"very protective of owner" won’t like strangers

"particularly good with people" not good with dogs

We can also group dogs into those that work with man and those that work independently.

Gundogs, herding dogs, guard dogs mostly tend to take instructions from us and often hang on our every word.

In contrast the independent breeds, sighthounds that hunt by sight, scent hounds that hunt by following a scent, terriers that go down holes, stock guarding breeds that live with the flock. We just leave them to get on with it because their skills far outweigh ours. They don’t need us.

These are the breeds that are often labeled as stubborn but of course they are not stubborn, they are just not designed to follow instructions and take orders.

The secret to a successful partnership with all dogs but particularly the independant breeds is to always let them think that it was their idea, that they have trained you to give treats for checking in, for lying on their bed when you are busy. And that by pretending to be thinking of going hunting you will produce a toy and play a great game with them. This line of thinking works well with husbands too.

There are always exceptions and we know that with appropriate training and socialising these traits can be channelled effectively but please always do your research before buying a breed that you like the look of.

Re digging terrier. Reinforcement for recall is to dig.

Dog digging, you run to new area calling dog and the dog comes and is encouraged to dig.

Recall sorted

Ah I understand your question now. ABCs are more about understanding why your dog is behaving the way he is.
An example might be:

"My dog barks at other dogs. I try really hard not to let him, but no matter what I do, he barks."

A - Dog sees another dog
B - Dog barks
C - Owner turns dog away and walks further away from the other dog.

By looking at the ABCs, we can see that the dog is 'rewarded' for his barking by the scary dog getting further away from him.

To counter that, you could use 'Distraction, mark, treat'. So, after working out the distance your dog stops reacting, you'd start a bit further away, then as soon as a dog comes into view, you'd say 'yes' or 'look' or some other mark word, and offer a treat. You'd gradually move closer, repeating that.

It's much better to prevent reactiveness than to overcome it though.

Why do you need to correct her for going through a door first? Is it impulse control you are looking to shape, or do you believe there is a reason she shouldn't go through a door first?

@HappiestSleeping because she goes for the other dogs to prevent them going forward to the next room. She jumps up at their face and neck, it's in a rough play way not an aggressive way. But it does spill over and go too far sometimes.

OK, I missed that you own multiple dogs. Have you tried asking her to sit, with rewards, while the other dogs go through?

I tried treats but I think my timing was off as I ended up teaching her that when she dive bombs the other dogs she gets a treat.

I think her self control is improving naturally as she gets older, 18 months now. We have also managed to successfully to let her off in the field with one of the dogs at a time. Previous to this it was too much due to the size difference and rough play was making me anxious.

Yeah, that would be a problem. I think maybe start with her further away from the door. Ask for a sit, reward, let other dogs go through while she maintains a sit, reward, repeat, repeat, repeat. Then move a little closer to the door, etc etc. She doesn't even need to go through the door herself necessarily, although you can use that as a reward too, I.e. she gets to go through herself after she has sat while the other dogs go through.

@Lougle thank you, yes that make sense .

What are the other breeds? Play can often look rough when it isn't, and it's important to let them interact otherwise it can be frustrating, or lead to even greater levels of stimulation.

If you are anxious, this is likely to transmit to the dog, so try and take a deep breath. Maybe a long line so that you can intervene if required from a distance?

@HappiestSleeping thank you, starting further back from door is something I havent tried but I think would help actually, as previously it ends up me and 1 excited dog and 2 annoyed dogs jammed in a doorway.

@HappiestSleeping saluki lurcher and collie lurcher are the older bigger ones, and bedlington x whippet is the younger smaller one.

The bedlington does a kind of growly talking grumble if that makes sense? And the collie lurcher sometimes looks like he is trying to grab her when they run very fast alongside each other. However yesterday they did some nice what I call proper running and taking turns chasing each other, rather than rearing up and grabbing which I don't like. Yes you are definetly right about the anxious thing.