Unexpected benefits of reward-based training

[Frequency]

After reading through a depressing number of threads where punishment-based training and/or pack theory is being advised I thought this would be a good thread to start.

Big Dog is the first dog I have had since puppyhood and also the first dog who wasn't with me due to existing behaviour issues that need working on. He's also one of the smartest, most enthusiastic dogs I have ever worked with. He pleasure to train. The sheer joy in him when he spots me getting the clicker out is infectious and never fails to cheer me up.

The newest "trick" he has learned is to put his toys back in the toy box on command.

One thing I have noticed with him that previous dogs have never done, is if I am busy at work and don't do his lunchtime play/training session or toss him as many occasional treats as usual throughout the day he will randomly start performing behaviours he has learned through clicker training, including putting his toys away in an effort to earn a reward.

I have now ordered a second box for the kitchen I intend to use as a bin. Our garden is at the end of a cul de sac so in bad weather, a lot of random rubbish gets blown in. I plan to teach him to collect rubbish from the garden to put in the box in the kitchen with the hopes that he starts randomly performing this behaviour.

Does anyone else have any unexpected benefits from clicker training to share (or any ideas on what I can teach my dog so he can start earning his keep by cleaning )

Hoovering? 😁

My boy is a complete joy, he is very biddable and loves any sort of reward based fun. My plus is that he has been taught mostly that he gets rewarded/praised when his bum's on the floor (and not jumping up or shagging anyone's leg).

So now when he wants anything he comes over and sits adorably at your feet wagging his tail and gazing up at you. We call it his Puss in Boots eyes!

@Frequency he sounds like a sweetheart! Maybe teach him the dusting?

The only tip I have which my trainer told me was to randomly drop a treat when my dog is completely relaxed dozing or lying head down, to teach calmness.

Your dog sounds very smart and if he is offering 'busy' behaviours in the hope of a treat you can get in there before he starts adding on bark or something else in the hope of a treat .

My dog started running to her crate and sitting there waiting expectingly for a treat as thats what I taught her, but when I didnt give her a treat she would run in and yap. I quickly nipped this in the bud.

@Frequency how did you teach the tidy up toys? I would love to do this but don't know where to start.

@nottaotter through shaping/capturing. Clicker trained dogs know they have to do something to get a click so will start offering behaviours.

Break it down into steps. The first thing you want him to do is pick up the toy. So you click when they show interest in a nearby toy. Once they show interest immediately only click when they pick the toy up.

This is when I start luring. Once he has the toy in his mouth I lure him towards the toy box. At first, he dropped the toy when I added luring so I took a step back and clicked for picking the toy up a few times then went back to luring until he kept hold of the toy.

Lure towards the toy box. I added a few clicks for following the lure while holding the toy. Once they have their head over the box wait until they offer a behaviour which will most likely involve dropping the toy. Click as soon as they drop it. Once they reliably pick the toy up and take it to the box start adding a cue.

You need to repeat with several toys before they understand it works with all toys and not just the one you trained with.

If you have a smaller dog who might need to put his paws on the edge of the toy box to reach it start by getting it to drop the toy onto a tray and then slowly raise the tray until he has to put his paws up, then put the tray into the toy box and let them see you do this.

Dusting is a great idea and something he could probably do. I did try to think of something I could teach him to pick up all the hair he leaves everywhere but haven't come up with anything yet.

@Frequency thats a brilliant answer thank you! The tray idea is genius, having a first step of waiting to show interest in a toy is something I think I can easily build on as she does start rummaging in her toy box anyway so I need to watch for that.

What about these op?

One thing I learned in college that helped me really grasp how shaping and capturing works is to get someone to clicker train you. Have someone think of an action eg writing your name on a piece of paper and get them to click you as you work through behaviours towards the final action.

It really helps you understand it from the dog's POV and helps you see why things need to be broken down into tiny steps and also how frustrating it can be when the steps expected to earn the click are too big.

I love that idea. That is definitely next on my list. Thank you. I might start hiring him out as a cleaner 😂

Also, clicker training people is a great drinking game. Instead of a click, you get a shot. It always descends into chaos and laughter.

One of the biggest and often unknown benefits (imo) is optimism.

Dogs do great and funny things - they make us laugh. But to do a 'funny thing' often requires the dog to be prepared to try out something brand new to see what happens.

Novel behaviours are often things you don't really want (eg what if I try to climb on the chair to get on the table to share your dinner?). But occasionally you get a real gem: something hilarious such as my own dog that stamps his back leg like a child having a tantrum when he wants something; or really useful, such as the same dog who now puts his frong legs on your lap and raises himself up, so you can examine his teeth.

A dog that has a history of being rewarding occasionally for novel behaviours will be more willing to try them again in the future.

You then have the option of ignoring it or rewrading it greatly to make it 'stick'. If the dog finds he gets rewards occasionally for new behaviours, they will keep trying new things in the future.

Dogs punished are much less likely to do this - they can tend to only stick to behaviours they 100% know are OK, so there is no risk of punishment.

Amen to this.

I think anyone who has studied animal behaviour/training has done this exercise and within about 5 mins you just want to shake the other person and yell "what do you want from me?!?!"

An effective lesson for how a dog might feel.

My pup, now 15 months greets me with maximum enthusiasm when I get home from work (OH WFH). Then, once she's got that out of her system she throws herself into her crate wagging her tail as that's where the GOOD THINGS come from!

When we are on a walk and she sees something she isn't sure of, she stops and throws her head back and looks at me.

Loads of other examples. Like seeing the cat and running to us for a snack or game, laying on her mat when we prepare food and eat it and coming in from the garden after last wees and sitting by the bottom of the stairs for her snack :)

We adopted an non-house trained, nervous rescue and used rewards-based training (with ham) to make her into a real dog.

For example...
We gave her puzzle toys with ham in every time we went out and she was left alone.
We gave her ham every time one/both of us returned from being out.
We gave her ham every time she poo'd not in the house.

Yeah, went great.....

When she picks up that we're both going out and she's going to be left alone, she starts shouting at us at the top of her voice to hurry up and fuck off out so she can get all the games.
When one/both of us arrives home, she does a cursory "Hello" wag, then goes and sits by the fridge where the ham lives.
When she poo's on a walk, she plants all 8kg on the floor and will not budge until she's been rewarded.

It was nearly eight years ago we brought her home. These patterns are unbreakable. We have created a monster. A very well-behaved and well-rewarded monster. But a monster all the same.

I've thought of another one. While Big Dog is the first dog who has performed tricks unprompted and the first dog without existing issues I have worked with I have noticed when you work with dogs who have existing issues who have been trained with punishment you can see them visibly start to relax and gain confidence. It's lovely to witness and you feel a real sense of achievement.

They start off being unsure and unwilling to offer any new behaviours during sessions but slowly start to blossom and start to try new things. I used to work with a local rescue assessing dogs and getting them ready for rehoming.

I had one dog who had clearly never had her own toys but had been punished for chewing/playing with things. If she saw my existing dogs start to play with something left on the floor she would hide herself away under a table.

She would get nervous if I offered her a toy but with time, patience, and loads of treats she finally learned to play. She had a kind of lightbulb moment one day when I was working with her. After teaching her to pick up toys I would wait to see if she would offer any playful behaviours with them. She gave the teddy she was working with a tiny, tentative shake so showered her with praise and treats and something clicked in her. She started racing around in circles, shaking the teddy and jumping in circles.

The utter, unadulterated joy in her when she realised the teddy was hers and she could shake it and rip it up if she wanted to was heart melting. I got something in my eye during that session.

She went from shying away from toys to bouncing with joy when a new toy was brought out.

NB: If anyone has a dog like her I only offered her a toy once. As soon as she showed anxiety I put the toy down. I taught the behaviour by working on basic commands near a toy on the floor and rewarding her if she voluntarily moved closer to the toy. The first time she picked the toy up she did it on her own volition.

If you have a dog who is afraid to play please don't train them by waving toys in their face. Try sitting at the other end of the room and gently rolling a ball towards them and clicking if they show interest instead.

@Frequency my problem is that once the kibble comes out for training, toys are dead to her.

She runs around with a trainer in her mouth, and if I tell her to drop it, she does instantly, for the kibble. But then she won't touch it. Once the kibble is all gone, she picks it up again!

I know it's a failing on my part because she's so very keen to learn, so I need to find a way of training her through it.

My unexpected gain is her absolute focus on us when we're training. She is amazing. At 16 weeks she already does so much and she's doing really well at puppy class because she's so used to listening to us and watching us.

@Lougle we have a rule if it is on the floor it belongs to the dog. If you don't want the dog to eat your shoes put them away but if that is not possible teach her that not playing with trainers is more fun.

Start by putting in her a stay and then putting a trainer on the floor. Click her once her eyes move off the trainer and onto you and repeat until she stops looking at the trainer. Then slowly start making the trainer more fun (throw it around, kick it across the floor, etc) and then drop it on the floor and click her for looking at you.

Once she is reliably looking at you and not the trainer release her from the stay. Click her for ignoring the trainer which, if she is focused on treats she will do anyway, so make the trainer more interesting eg direct her to walk past it, kick it accross the floor etc. Once she can do that, try putting a treat in the trainer and rewarding her for ignoring it. You will need to repeat with other things left on the floor as dogs don't generalise very well. That's why I prefer just not leaving things on the floor. I don't want to risk inadvertently teaching they cannot have their chew toys or play things.

If you mean you can't train behaviours with toys just put a toy on the floor in the training space and wait. She will eventually move closer to the toy either by accident when doing something else or by offering up behaviours to see what works. Then build on that.

I’m impressed. I tried to teach my shoe obsessed dog to put shoes in the porch, but he won’t do anything without a reward, and as soon as he sees I have a reward he drops the shoe

@Frequency thank you for this thread!!

I don't Clicker train, but I usually start with a toy or treat and just see what the dog does to get it - mouth or paw- and build on that, obviously prompted by the presence of an desired object.

I am at the very beginning of these unexpected behaviours from my little cockapoo.

She's an agility fanatic, doesn't understand the concept of taking turns or that training is only an hour 🙄

Yesterday in training, she did a few things to get my attention while waiting... first time She's done that. Sadly she only tried jumping up, barking at me and then she did a "pretty beg" ( this is a trick she knows) - the first 2 I ignored but the last on I rewarded with a treat. The problem was, she then really wanted to have a go on the equipment there and then.... I guess I need to curb her expectations!

... and the mandatory doggy image!
takenbefore she realised that agility is the Only thing that makes her happy!

Thank you for this thread! My new rescue is learning basic commands really quickly, and I was at a bit of a loss what to teach her next and keep her brain engaged, which she clearly enjoys. This thread has given me some great ideas (especially rewarding for sitting quietly in her bed!) and some good starting points for new things.
I do have a question though: why do people use clickers rather than just clicking with their tongue?

@Laguiri it's personal preference. The click can be anything that can quickly mark a desired behaviour. I use a clicker and "yes" interchangeably. The clicker is good because it's a visual cue that a training session is about to start so it immediately gets his focus but yes is good for marking behaviours when we are not training.

Ah yes, I was happy for her to pick up the trainer. It's more that I had the issue that she'll only pick it up if food isn't on offer. I agree with management though.

I taught my last dog to empty the washing machine and tumble dryer... though, it did also accidentally show him where socks might be 😐

Closing doors is always a useful one, especially if you’ve children who sometimes forget.

If you reward the dog for holding the object by putting the treat into the toy box the dog will begin to drop the toy immediately into the toy box. Over time you can move the toy box further away from the dog and they will trot over to the toy box drop the food and get their reward from the box .

This method will cut out the need to lure the dog to the toy box