Need advice re Labrador/assistance dog

[Doggydogdogdog]

Need some sensible opinions…

Basically, I am potentially looking to get a lab, I have the place identified, I just need to think whether I actually want to go ahead or not.

I am autistic and would like/need an assistance dog. I have a 4.5 year old border terrier but whilst he is brilliant he’s not assistance dog material if I’m honest.

So, here comes the lab part. The place I have identified, breeds and often trains labs for gundog work and pet homes and also a few for assistance dog work.

I do not want a young puppy, I could not cope with that, the toilet training that sort of thing. But I can cope with an older dog.

If I were to go with what I am thinking the dog would be a year old plus. It would be trained in standard obedience type stuff, to a very good standard. We wouldn’t get the dog till next autumn.

They would pick the suitable dog, and assess the dog as it grows and swap to another dog if needed if the original dog became unsuitable as it grew.

So has anyone done this, not necessarily the assistance dog part, but the working lab from a gundog breeder that is part trained? If it’s fir an assistance dog it would be even better.

I’ve also never had a lab, I’ve only ever had a cocker cross and the current border terrier. We also have two cats.

So hopefully someone can give me some advice on labs and this situation.

Thank you

What are you planning to do once you have your dog? Because at a year old, it's only really the beginning. You'll still have to do all the bonding, etc. You'll have to learn your dog's communication style. You'll have to establish yourself as their person. If you want your dog to be an Assistance Dog, you'll have to do all the training that entails. All the proofing of the behaviour. All the public access exposure.

I looked into part-trained when I was looking for DD2. They wanted £7000 for an 8 month old Labrador. Completely reasonable, given the effort that has been put in, but you have no idea whether any of these dogs will actually become the dog you need them to be.

If you're wanting an assistance dog, I'd want to know how they are socialising the dog. The biggest reason the dogs fail as assistance dogs is that they can't cope with the demands of being around the public or other dogs. It's such a big ask of a dog to always be focused on you and not react to people or dogs getting in your face.

Honestly with most labs the hard part isn't over till 2-3 as they are slow maturing. If your looking for a calm dog then I'd be looking for one that's through adolescence.

A 1 year old lab is likely in line for a personality change as they hit adolescence. I would genuinely say the hardest part with our old lab was at about 18 months when he completely regressed.

Guide dogs that fail for example are mostly around 18 months as that's when it becomes clear what they struggle with etc. They spend the first year or so with puppy walkers, then do some training and they wait for them to hit full adolescence before deciding on what temperament is likely to stay.

I'd also be warey of specialising in training assistance, working and pet dogs spiel. That sets of red flags for me.

That's pretty much every home so isn't a speciality, it's too broad and each thing would need different training and different things from the dog.

I have a cocker spaniel from working lines/working parents. My boy is training as a gundog (though on dummies only, it's very unlikely for several reasons that he will ever work on a shoot) and he would absolutely not be cut out for assistance dog work. However, he has a litter sibling who is doing brilliantly as an assistance dog for a young lad who is autistic; the breeder picked the puppy for the intended job. Dogs are individuals and even within a litter there can be great variation in personality, temperament and drives. So I wouldn't be put off by the fact the breeders lines also produce working gundogs, if he also has a track record of some puppies being suitable for assistance dog training. Good working lines should also give you biddability and drive to work, because that's been prioritised for generations. A working line dog will need a job to be happy and calm and nice to live with but you have a job lined up for it - the job doesn't need to be retrieving pheasants. You're unlikely to get a part trained older dog from a show breeder.

It depends on your views about training but if it was me I would want to check the breeder doesn't use old-fashioned harsh methods which are still a thing in some parts of the gundog community. I would also want reassurance that the puppy will be exposed to the sights, sounds and experiences it will need to be comfortable with in its life as an assistance dog, during the socialisation period - not just the sights and sounds of life as a kennelled gundog. Or you could find yourself with an assistance dog that spooks a lot, which would bd tricky.

@Cockerdileteeth you are absolutely right about the overhang of harsh teaching in gundog communities. I've been quite shocked at some of the advice I've seen.

From my brief interactions with Australian working dog communities I'd be fairly surprised if it didn't included heavy adversives. It's a very different dog culture to here

You’ve posted this exact same post on a couple of assistance dog FB groups where many people have taken the time to respond to you. How many more responses and how much more advice do you need?

I've just recalled that she might not mean perth Australia!

I thought it was familiar!

It’s the exact same post, like a copy paste.

When I was a kid my friend’s dad got a part trained gun dog lab from a breeder. He had the sweetest temperament but he was a greedy disobedient git and as soon as he didn’t have 100% of his owner’s attention he was up to no good. He was sent to live on a farm (not a euphemism) eventually. I’ve met lots of labs as an adult that confirm to me this personality streak was not a one off so I’d be v wary of using one as an assistance dog unless they came from the right line and a really thorough training programme.

I’m going through the process for a support dog from an assistance dog charity at present. I’d be very wary about getting a dog from a breeder, esp a lab. Their process seems a lot more thorough compared to what I’ve seen from breeders.

I think you’ll find I can post wherever the hell I like thank you very much. Maybe I was looking for a different cross section of people.

Heaven forbid I use the same post. I’m just being efficient lol

I've had one of these working labs and he was just as you described. Definitely wasn't finished the puppy stage until about 4 years old . He would have been useless as an assistance dog. Labs have a lot of health issues too, ours started with arthritis in the hips at 6. He's 11 now and he's going blind , seline and his hips are shot.
You seem quite set on doing this but my only advice would be to get a full health history for its line. Hip scores etc etc. Our lab has been sickly his hole life , as have all his siblings.

Why is that a problem? Surely it's quite sensible to get advice from lots of different places?

You’re just as rude on here as you are on FB. Many people have taken the time to give you advice on many social platforms including this one AGAIN. I’m surprised you need to ask advice on so many platforms since you have your own dog walking business tbh, you’d think you’d know breeds.

Personally I would go via a registered charity rather than some random training bloke. Assistance Dogs UK provides a list of the various assistance dogs charities and what they do/how they can help.

Without going down the registered charity route, I would be concerned about the dog a) not being trained properly to meet specific needs; and b) not having a recognisable accredited vest to wear when working out in public. Those “support dog” harnesses that anyone can buy on Amazon are really not the same thing.

How am I rude on Facebook? the groups are for support. The posts have all been accepted so are clearly okay. And why are you stalking me on fb.

I dint have a dog walking business, haven’t for a long time. I literally did it 5 months.

I have gundogs. Tbh I suspect the majority of them would make excellent assistance dogs, the key thing with a working bred dog is mental stimulation. Lots of people think they need 10 miles walking a day which they very much don't. Mine get miles, but that is for fitness out shooting more than anything and out of season they don't get that. The training is key and with a working bred dog they are very people orientated and trainable. I would say - don't get a dog bred from a long line of field trials champions- they can be dogs for very very experienced homes as they tend to be like Ferraris - useless for the daily commute! They have been bred for a specific role. Normal bog standard working bred is fine.

What about the dog you have? Would it accept a new dog? Would I get jealous of you spending all your time with it. What about you cats dobthey get on with dogs

Have you spoken to actual assistance dog charities about getting an actual dog who is specifically trained to do what you want? At a year old the dog will not be able to do what you want it to do. (.my sister trains such dogs) you aren’t even paired with a dog by then and even then it takes time to work together to teach you how to work with the dog have they got a set up for that?

I’m sure you really want this dog but it reality it’ll be 2 years or more (if at all) that this becomes reality with the correct dog and training for you both. I can’t comment on working/show dogs as my goldens have been pets but I’d make sure you’re not stuck with a dog who doesn’t meet your needs in the long run. The dog needs to be trained for what you need with you in mind so if it doesn’t meet the standard do you still pay? I can imagine this is v expensive. Good luck though the dog will be amazing for you when you get it.

Show line all the way .
A working line Labrador ( or working any gundog breed) is massively different to show lines.

I know of an Assistance Whippet- that one is from
show/ coursing lines and it’s relations are also registered Therapy dogs ( Pets as therapy)
Labradors can be extremely boisterous and blundering when young.

I think it depends on what you want the dog to do. I have 2 labs, with champion gundogs all over their pedigrees. They would both make great assistance dogs. Many, if not most labs, are multi purpose. And they are generally willing to work. The difference is the work you train them to do.

A gun dog is trained to the gun, a show dog to the ring. My 2 are trained to be excellent around the home and fun on long walks. They like to swim, retrieve , carry. They also like to be close to me and will put up with small children or other dogs crawling all over them. They are mature now and very calm.

It is important that you can meet the dogs needs, but sadly my experience of some assistance dogs is that the dogs needs are often last to be considered.

My current dog is extremely dog friendly but prefers another family member to me. Also we got my current dog when my previous dog was 12, so he’s used to other dogs in the house. And the new dog will be used to other dogs in the home and stuff like that. So provided we di careful introductions and trial runs and stuff, under the guidance of the breeder/trainer all should be okay.

my cat loves my dog, they next to each other frequentl, not touching but on the same seat if the sofa. The other cat is okay, not reactive to the dog, but not buddies, they rub along gently.

the new dog will have experience with cats too. So provided careful introductions all should be okay.

The new dog and our current pets will be our priority. If either or myself are not ready then we’ll change plans.

the dogs needs are my priority. I totally understand that.

There’s only one assistance dog charity I qualify for and they have dubious reviews and want about £15k. Other assistance dog providers who have good reviews, are too far away, as in like a10 hour drive. Whereas this breeder, he has experience placing dogs for assistance dog work and providing dogs for assistance dog charities. For pet homes and gundog homes. He considers the dog for you, rather than you for the dog, hence why I am encouraged. He identifies the dog for you rather than us going I want that dog then trying to get it to work. And he’s two hours away.