Puppy Survival Thread - for old and new pups

[Riverlee]

Thought I’d start a new thread as the old one is at its limit, for new and older pups.

please come and share your tales of success, woes, concerns and questions, and of course, photographs.

@Pineapplemonkey solidarity!!! I promise the shark stage will pass! It was the back of my legs that took the brunt of that….

I really, really struggled toilet training Feelypup. Poos settled fairly quickly, but the wees- nope! She seemed to just not be able to hold for even a second to open the door. This was February so leaving the door open was not an option. But I promise she absolutely got the idea in the end. I just ignored the indoor accidents and showed lots of fuss for the outdoor wees.

This too will pass!!

Thanks everyone, am trying to believe this will pass but I just feel broken. I'm struggling with the constant launching at my face (with no warning, she can now do a flying leap from the floor when I'm sat on the sofa, it's like she's possessed), I take her out into the garden every half an hour or so, it's dry, not that cold, in fact at one point today it was sunny but she just tries to get out of the very large pen and whines and only toilets maybe 30% of the time, regardless of how long we stay out there, the remaining 60% of the time is half puppy pads and half where ever she feels like on my carpet. I get zero warning. I could probably tolerate this slightly better if it wasn't for the biting and trying to destroy anything and everything. Oh and the food issue, my food that is. I literally can't eat or drink ANYTHING without her going into a frenzy and hurling herself at me trying to get the food or drink, this continues pretty much the whole time I'm eating/drinking. I have to precut up my food so I can eat it one handed, I need the other arm to fend the puppy off.

She's well fed, constant access to water, all kinds of toys. We have short training sessions throughout the day involving (healthy) treats. When she toilets outside I make a huge fuss and reward her with roast chicken. I divide her playing into some with me, fetch, tug of war etc and some on her own with the toys, I'm still in the room. I give her some meals on a snuffle mat and this morning I gave her peanut butter on a licky mat which she seemed to enjoy. She has regular naps, some in her crate (upstairs so I have to take her there) and some on the sofa/floor. We've been on a few little walks (her in a dog carrying bag obvs) and we've been out in the car which she seems to not mind at all. I literally don't know what else I could be doing, I've got 3 weeks before she can go outside and I genuinely don't know if both of us will make it.
It feels like she has too much energy and has no way to release it. I knew getting a puppy would be hard work, I was prepared, but not for this misery.
And I'm trying to hold down a full time job 🫣

Apologies everyone, I just had to write all that down and get it off my chest, it's probably not helping the fact I'm on my own, I don't have anyone to share the load with, I don't get a break from the puppy.

I feel like such a whinger, I'm not normally like this but I'm so far beyond the end of my tether it's untrue.

My silver lining? In just over an hour I can put her in her crate and I won't hear a peep out of her til morning. Although it's raining hard outside so I've got the fun of bedtime wees to go yet........

@Pineapplemonkey your problem is that you have no containment zone. You need a puppy pen. We bought this one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134635232413?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=60j_kX8RQ7-&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=eG6xFfVRQxG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

It's just panels that connect together with rods. You can make it any shape and have more or less panels.

If she's bitey, in the pen for a rest. If you're eating, in the pen. If you can't supervise her 100% of the time, in the pen.

Raising a puppy is a combination of training and management. Management is what you do to keep your puppy safe/you sane before your puppy is trained.

She has no idea whatsoever that she's doing stuff to make you stressed. She's just enjoying herself. You need to get back to a situation where you decide what is fun.

Crate when you’re eating, it’s one less thing to contend with.

Hello. I've been directed here. We've got MissPoopsalot (not her real name), a 17 week old Labrador. We've had her 2 weeks. She's lovely. Knows her name and is getting 4 paws on the floor and stay. She sleeps through the night in her crate.

But toileting. OMG she is not getting it. We let her out hourly and whenever she seems to need the loo, but without fail she will go about 10minutes after coming in. It doesn't matter if we let her out, come back in and 10 minutes later go outside again, she will still go to the loo when she comes back in. She gets lots of praise and occasional treats when she does go outside. But so far we've had about double the toilets inside than outside. I just don't know where are going wrong! Especially as she's dry and clean at night!

@Pineapplemonkey sounds like you are doing everything right. Once she has all her jabs and you can start short walks and outdoor adventures, I am almost certain she is going to calm down some. She will be worn out and happy after exploring her outdoor environment. She is probably going a little stir crazy at home along with you.

I was entirely wfh when we got our pup and I found she soon associated me sitting on my work chair (a high stool at the kitchen island) at my laptop with me not being available and would either flop on her bed or under my feet. From memory I did short 5 minute games and training in the garden every 1-2 hours if she was awake. Obviously I left her if sleeping. Sometimes in the evenings if she got bitey, I'd sit at the work chair to get some respite.

I honestly have the best dog ever now so hang on in there.

@Pineapplemonkey
It's relentless isn't it. I cried all the fecking time at the start. AND I always thought I was quite resilient. It's just me as well although my children are a 10+ and do help. I absolutely hated her at the start, I just didn't feel had a bond and I hated not knowing if she was happy. It was awful. It was a routine that saved me and it sounds like you've already got one going with the naps. But it's relentless at the start. Hence my comment about wine.
It does pass. I think by the time 16-18 weeks - they are well on their way through teething and I think you both pick up on each other's cues a lot better. She doesn't know what's right and wrong so just keep on rewarding the good and ignoring the bad. Yes it's millions of treats.
I do feel I have the best dog ever now and have felt that for quite some time now. It really does pass, you are doing great even though it might not feel like it.

@Dogdaywoes welcome to the thread. I would say that you are being a bit inconsistent. If you're going to treat her for toileting outside, you need to treat every time so that she gets the message that it's a really good thing to toilet outside. Also, look at what's happening when you come inside. Is she playing (she'll need to wee again)? Is she drinking (she'll need to wee again)? Is she sleeping (she'll need to wee again)? You need to treat her like an 8 week old puppy and go back to the beginning.

Thanks everyone, you have genuinely made me feel slightly more positive and given me a few ideas. I know I need to put my big girl pants on and grit my teeth and it will get better. Tomorrow will be a test because it's my first day back in the office (I do 1 day a week, rest WFH) so she's going to my parents house for the day (only one
Doggy day care round here and they have to be a year old 🙄) It's 50/50 between excitement about being on my own all day and worry that my parents will accidentally kill her. Fingers crossed that works out 🤞

@Lougle thanks, I'll treat every time. It's poo, rather wee that's the problem. She's reliably weeing every 3 hours, but poo is inconsistent and frequent 5+ per day) - it's large and solid though, so she doesn't have diarrhea etc.

What food is she on ? That sounds like a lot of poo!

@userxx Dr John's titanium. It's what the breeder had them on, I've not moved over yet but happy to take suggestions

@Dogdaywoes Dr John's Titanium is for puppies 4 months+ and is pretty cruddy, tbh. It only rates 38% on the AADF rating scale for dog food. Probably because it's mostly cereal with a bit of animal derivatives. https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0163/dr-john-titanium

It will be why your puppy's poos are so large, because there's so much waste in the food because it's bulked out with cereals.

My breeder sent Hazel home on UBO, which is £74 per bag. When I googled, it is exactly the same formulation as Jolleyes Lifestage, which is only £36 per bag. Turns out that the manufacturer produces it, then resellers put their own label on it. So my breeder was paying double the price she could have done. That said, it's a really good food. I bought it under the label 'Nourish' before I realised that it's the same as Lifestage, but again it's more expensive at £54 per bag. Exactly the same food!!

https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/2543/nourish-grain-free-puppy

It's got 60% salmon, mostly fresh fish, no grains. It rates 68% on the AADF rating. Her coat is really glossy and her poos are really good - regular, but not too big or fluffy.

Here it is:

https://www.jollyes.co.uk/lifestage-grain-free-puppy-salmon-with-haddock-10kg.html

Good morning, I am new here but been lurking a bit for a while!
We have recently become proud parents of a 12 week old working cocker. Going ok so far I think, managing to keep most toileting outside and crate sleeps overnight. Trying to enforce naps by ignoring him after a toilet/activity/toilet which works well but he doesn’t go in his crate to nap, instead he naps on another blanket on the floor and if I didn’t do that he would just sleep on the carpet. He will only fall asleep if I am in the room with him and if I move and get up and walk out the room he wakes. Is this normal for this age? I have tried encouraging him into his crate and shutting the door but he cries and chews at the crate and I’m really worried about going backwards with the overnight crating which he tolerates really well and settles after 5-10 minutes of crying / chewing with us there reassuring him. Any advice welcome!
pic for tax, obv.

Aww he's so sweet @CockerMum . Have you done specific crate training with him in the day time? It's not a problem if he naps on the carpet but it is good to get to a point that they'll nap without you, otherwise you'll find separation anxiety can kick in.

We have a crate surrounded by a pen in DD2's (downstairs) bedroom. In the day time, if she settles herself, Hazel can choose to nap on a blanket or towel in the pen, or her crate. She often chooses the crate now. If we decide she needs a nap, she is put in her crate.

I've been taking pup out to pee about every half hour when she's awake, it's a pain but it's cut down on accidents and she pees each time.

@Lougle I've been thinking I need something along those lines, she's restricted to the kitchen/dining room but it means gardendog needs to go elsewhere in the house if she needs a break from the pup and previously she would have slept in the kitchen. Do you use it on hard floor and it stands up to a jumping puppy?

@Pineapplemonkey I said this last time, I'm not being dramatic... but I honestly think the first few months are worse than a newborn baby. You can stick a nappy on a baby change it when it's convenient... you can put the baby down and it won't trash the house or bite you. You can take a baby into the shops! You're doing an epic job working full time and without backup. DH is away over half term and I've poured myself a drink at 4 every day since he left.

@CockerMum Mum how beautiful! How long has pup been home? For the first week pup wouldn't tolerate falling asleep without me right next to the crate. She will now sleep with me at a distance but I have backed off a bit from the crate in the day time, I let her choose where to sleep and that seems to work better. She still sleeps in the crate at night. She was also crying a lot any time I left the room so we've been doing hundreds of "micro absences" where I leave the room or disappear from view for a second and have no fanfare about leaving or coming back. Basically making her bored of me going out of the room. It's helping so far and I'll get a minute or two before she starts to cry now. Fingers crossed we can keep building it up.

@BleakGarden yes, we use it on a hard floor. I wanted it to fit in DD2's room because she's her dog, so I used zip ties to attach it to her bed on one side, and a radiator on the other, but free standing is just as good if joined up.

Thanks both. To be fair he has only been home a couple of days, and I know we are probably still establishing the initial bond and trust which is why I don’t want to force separation on him just yet. If I got out the room when he is napping he will get up and follow me, sometimes immediately sometimes after a few seconds. I read pp on here about basically just going about your day and letting pup follow you so they realise it’s nothing exciting and get bored which is the approach I’m going to stick with I think! We have done a tiny amount of crate training but I think working on that is a good idea. He does get all his meals in there and his water bowl is in there so he pops in and out, the crate is downstairs in the day time in the living room where we mainly hang out and at night it’s next to our bed so he can see / smell /hear us and so we can get up with him for his nighttime wee.

If his water bowl is in there, is it quite big? A crate should only be big enough for the puppy to stand up, turn around, and lie down stretched out. Any bigger and it will feel too big and they won't settle in it, or they'll toilet in it. Hazel is 12 weeks old now and her crate is divided so that she has 22" x 20" - the other 10" of her crate is blocked.

@Pineapplemonkey, I feel your pain. I spent the first weeks in tears, thinking we had made a huge mistake. The biting was horrendous, our arms looked dreadful. We had a pen set up and baby gates which were all useful. When she was biting, I would move to the other side of the gate or door! and wait 20/30 seconds and return, rinse repeat! But we also learnt that we were over stimulating her which in turn made her worse. Short sessions training on lead and off in the garden or the house, lick mats, stuffed toppls, carrot sticks and teaching settle, and the best thing was and is search. Using her kibble or small treats hide them around the garden or house ( stopping every so often to take her to pee). It really is hard work but, you will get there, it really does pass.

It’s a similar size to yours I think, he seems fine in it overnight no accidents and settles well so don’t think it’s a size issue if you see what I mean

FluffyPup still loves to follow me when I leave a room, and he's a year old! Or sometimes he'll just move to the doorway so he can see where I am. I think he'll eventually not bother, but there's no separation anxiety that we've noticed.

And I can't even begin to tell you the kibble rabbit holes I went down to find something I was happy with. I'm interested in that Jollyes one though, as it seems quite similar to the obviously way more expensive Nourish one we're currently getting.

Ah, just seen it's the same food when I've read more carefully. The Jollyes' bags are smaller though so works out about £9 cheaper if the bags were the same size. Which is still not to be sniffed at!

Due to collect our new family member in 3 weeks, so reading this thread for hints and tips. It's so long since I had a puppy I've forgotten what it's like - our last dog passed away at 17yrs.

When I last had a puppy, crate training was not a thing so not sure how to do it and if necessary?
I have bought the easy peasy book as I've heard that is a great help.

Main thing now is to decide on a name for our little boy. We just can't come up with one that we all agree on 😩 ideas welcome.

Aww he is a sweetie! Arthur sprang to mind when I saw him