Regulate trainers instead of banning breeds

[Decktheschools]

Dog training is unregulated in the UK. Anyone can call themselves an expert in training and behaviour and set themselves up as a dog trainer. Even more worrying, they can then train other people to be trainers and propagate a dangerous number of people who call themselves trainers and look official because they hold a certificate. Even worse, they then go on TV and show off to the camera and people think they must be the best.

Good trainers constantly update their knowledge. They incorporate the latest evidence into their training. They use force free methods of training which are proven to provide long term solutions, but they aren't sexy and quick so don't make good TV. They don't use adversaries, yank the lead or shout no. It's been proven that the use of punishment or adversaries such as a raised voice or making a loud noise can create an aggressive dog. It doesn't happen for every dog, but it happens enough, the so called training makes the problem worse.

If all trainers were regulated then dog owners could be sure the person they are going to for help was qualified to give that help. Then maybe we wouldn't have so many aggressive dogs and breeds wouldn't have to be banned.

What do you think?

I mean unregulated trainers is an issue, but it’s breeding and ownership that’s the root cause of dog attacks, plenty of owners never even use a trainer.

I think the point I'm trying to make is why aren't trainers regulated? I accept there are other issues, such as owners who don't see a trainer and unregulated breeders, but regulating trainers would be a start. I think poor trainers are much more prevalent than people think. Trying to find out a trainer's philosophy is difficult.

For example I was taking part in a dog sport and the trainer for that started offering Kennel club good citizen bronze and silver training and awards. This trainer used citronella collars, slip collars, air sprays etc. I started training the sport with them because I didn't realise their training methods, and because my dog had been positively trained and didn't have any serious behaviour issues. I left because they were trying to get me to shake a can at my new puppy every time they barked at another dog. Other people thought the trainer was amazing and took everything on board. This type of training leads to aggressive dogs.

The point about the Jack Russel is that any dog can be aggressive and dangerous. Yes, some dogs are more dangerous to an adult because they are so strong. But do we really want to be banning all dogs, what about German shepherds, rottweilers, dobermans? Ban the XL Bully and another breed or crossbreed will take its place. At least regulating training gives people the chance to get appropriate training, not everyone will take it up but it's a start. It might also stop all the awful trainers on TV who demonstrate a serious misunderstanding of how to train dogs successfully for the long term - and make the general public think that's the right way to train a dog.

This.

Breeding needs regulation not the dogs themselves. So many things contribute to the temperament of a dog and training is just one. I would like to see training regulated as I have seen some very scary things and picked up the pieces from other local trainers who have no qualifications and no real knowledge of behaviour. But it won't stop attacks. Only breeding regulation of ALL breeds will do that.

All good trainers are calling out for regulation.

All good behaviourists are calling out for regulation - although they have pretty much got it sorted and understand that a level 5 or masters qualification in a relevant subject is essential. This is taking a while to drip down to the general public though.

I think it is also in the circles that you mix all of my dog training colleagues are degree educated and work professionally with dogs or compete at high standards in a specialised dog sport. To us there are a lot of highly qualified trainers around that are very accessible to the general public.

It is not hard to find awesome qualified trainers. More education of the general public would be a good cheap easy starting point.

Owners, not trainers, are the problem.

This ^

Exactly

I watched a video on social media earlier, amazing transformation in the dog’s behaviour… because of the massive prong collar 😭

XL Bullies are bred for fighting. They don't belong in a family environment. There's no point saying ' it's not the dog it's the owner' anymore. No responsible adult would buy an XL Bully, they're killing machines given the right circumstances. Anyone who chooses to own one definitely should not be allowed.

Trainers n XL Bullies = { }

I completely agree that dog training and behaviour should be a regulated industry.

However, it's not an either / or scenario. We could regulate the training and behaviour industry AND ban XL Bullies.

There have always been crap owners.
There have always been crap trainers.
There have always been crap, aversive and abusive training methods.

But until crap owners (and trainers) had access to XL Bullies we simply didn't have anywhere near this number of fatalities.

XL Bullies are estimated to be less than 1% of the dog population but are responsible for over 50% of recent deaths. It takes a bit more than just crap dog training to create that sort of disparity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

Isn't it also true that XL Bully is not a true breed so how can they be regulated?

The same way it's done at the moment - by measurements and appearance.

They're not recognised by the Kennel Club, but there is the UKBKC which has its own breed standard

This one is for the Classic Bully; the standard for the XL is literally "this but taller"
https://www.ukbullykennelclub.co.uk/american-bully-standard

Pit bulls aren't really a breed, in much the same way as the XL Bully isn't, but the government still created a standard for them (see annexe 2 here)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a755914ed915d6faf2b24bc/dogs-guide-enforcers.pdf

The point about the Jack Russel is that any dog can be aggressive and dangerous.

The deaths attributed to Jack Russells since 1980 are

1986 - 5 day old baby
2009 - JRT and a staffy working together, 3.5 month old baby
2012 - 8 day old baby

That's 3 cases in about 40 years. In all cases they were very tiny, delicate babies, left unsupervised with dogs. All cases were easily preventable.

For XL Bullies, we've had 4 deaths in 2023, and counting, all of grown, able bodied adults who stood no chance against 60kg+ of XL Bully even when other adults tried to intervene.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

How's that a thing? I know it's really not

XL Bullies are killing machines. Yeah Yorkshire terriers can be snappy but ffs u can totally boot one of them into orbit if it started attacking a kid. An XL will clamp down and rip you're throat out while his owner is too busy shooting up/staring beef with another junkie/ shoplifting/

I am a professional dog trainer.

I am of course generalising, as there are always going to be exceptions, but as many have said upthread, the majority of dogs that are of concern to the general public are very unlikely to have owners who are paying for and dedicated to ongoing training and responsible dog ownership.

(btw - I do not agree with the XL bully ban because I believe it will be ineffective. However, I do believe we need some form of far stricter regulation around ownership of large powerful breeds. I have seen some examples of outstanding XL bullies with wonderful owners, but being completely honest these are few and far between. I have observed many more examples of people that are in no way equipped to own or handle XL bullies or other similarly powerful/high drive/guarding breeds for that matter)

Separately, is regulating training a good idea? Potentially at a high level in terms of do you have adequate insurance, risk management etc. However dog training is so nuanced, and there are so many different approaches, I can't see that it would be in any way feasible that actual training techniques could be mandated or regulated in any sort of detail.

Some of the best dog trainers who compete at a high level (Robert Cabral, Ivan Balabanov being a couple I can think of off the top of my head who have social media "profile") are balanced (i.e. use aversives in their training). Whether you would choose to use the same methods or not is up to you, but are we honestly saying that someone who competes in competitive sports such as IPO or Schutzhund to the highest level in the world would not be fit to train a pet labradoodle?

Conversely, some of the high profile positive only trainers (Zak George and Victoria Stillwell are two that spring to mind) are in my opinion utterly useless. I wouldn't let them go near my dog with a barge pole, let alone trust them to train a truly aggressive powerful high drive breed.

There are of course extremely skilled positive only trainers, and utterly terrible balanced trainers as well.

The biggest difference is often in the skill of the trainer, not necessarily the blanket training techniques being applied, and I have no idea how a government/local authority that has already demonstrated a real lack of knowledge in this space could even begin to make a considered judgement on how a trainer would "make the grade".