5 year old dogs recall getting worse

[shesamadam]

So I have a 5 year old spaniel.
We've done 3 levels of kennel club training with her when she was a puppy and her recall used to be spot on.
Then she got to around 18 months and starting acting up. Wouldn't come back at the end of a walk, but would come back every time we called her during a walk.
She never runs away, just stands far enough away that she can't grab her and if you walk towards her she'll jump back.
We ended up with a longline on her for about a year and eventually she started coming back again.
At the age of 4.5 she suddenly started playing up again at the end of a walk. She's ok with certain people (myself and the dog walker) but plays other people up, friends and my parents for example.
She's not food oriented at all. You could drop a steak in front of her on a walk and she wouldn't even bother to sniff it.
Friends took her out as a favour today and it took them an hour to get her back on the lead and this was by trapping her in the corner of the park. I was so embarrassed.
She gets 1.5-2 hours off lead a day.
Any ideas what I can do to get her to start behaving again? No one wants to take her out anymore because she plays up.

Randomly if she's playing up for anyone else I can drive to meet them, call the dogs name and she jumps straight into my car within seconds.

We've also tried putting her lead on and off numerous times during a walk. It didn't make any difference. We can get half way through a walk, or 3/4 of the way through a walk, or almost all the way home and then out of no-where she'll start lying down about 10 feet from you. As soon as you walk towards her she'll spring back.

I know nothing about dogs but will she not simply have to stay on lead then when someone else is walking her? If she can’t be trusted you can’t risk losing her.
There’s no way I’d be happy walking someone else’s dog off lead in these circumstances. Apart from having to spend an hour getting her back being very annoying, I’d be terrified of losing her altogether.

She honestly never goes far. Literally 10 feet away and lies down. It's just when you walk towards her she'll spring back. So I'm not concerned about losing her, it's just a pain in the bum.
Technically she could stay on the lead, but she's a springer and really really needs at least an hour off lead per day.

From her point of view, this is probably a fabulous game. It's one that one of my dogs has played in the past.

Will she come back for a ball? You call her in for the ball, clip on a longline, give her a few chances to chase or fetch the ball (whatever she prefers), and then go on your way.

If that doesn't work, find your way to a decent gundog trainer. An experienced one will have dealt with 100s of springers and everything that they do.

She has a ball the entire walk, then at the end she stops bringing it back and lies down with it in her mouth.
Maybe if we stopped the ball and she just got it as a reward at the end of the walk that might help. I'll try that at the weekend.

Take two balls so you always have a new prize / swap

Failing that have them take her and let her loose with a long line attached as long as it's a remote area

I've tried the 2 balls. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But yes, looks like it's the longline again. She's so clever tho. When she's got the longline trailing behind her she'll go 10 feet further back, just far enough that you can't step on it.

She's ok with certain people (myself and the dog walker) but plays other people up, friends and my parents for example.

So when friends and your parents walk her she needs to be on a long line.

I don't honestly see the problem.

I don't care how well behaved a dog is, if it's not my dog it stays on a lead if I'm walking the dog.

I'm not sure why you need your dog to be the perfect off-lead dog when being walked by other people?

How does she know it’s the end of the walk?

That's actually a really good question.

I was about to suggest a trailing lead - she is a smart cookie!

It does sound like she's treating this as a bit of a game. What happens if people totally ignore her - no eye contact, backs turned etc - does she then seek attention?

I had to stop walking mine with a ball - partly because he's so ball-obsessed that he wouldn't do anything else (didn't engage in sniffing, dogs, squirrels etc.), and partly because he became less obedient - he already had the highest possible reward, so why bother coming back for something distinctly subpar?

Balls are an indoor-only thing now, and now he comes back from his walks more tired because he's engaging in the environment more, not just chasing balls.

I guess she knows it's the end of the walk as we are back where we started? There's 3 fields we walk her in, and she knows when we are almost back at the car.

We've even pretended to walk home before or gone and sat in the car where we can still see her and she just lies there watching you.

Does she only ever go back on the lead when the walk is over?

Oh OP, she sounds a bit like mine. I can’t let her off lead because of it.

To your dog recall means something good is ending

If you make recall mean that something good is beginning your dog will have great recall.

Yeah I guess only goes on a lead during the 2 minute walk to and from the fields.

So lead goes on and you throw treats on the floor for her to sniff out and find. Start this at home put lead on and start the sniffing game so she has association with the word

Lead goes on and her ball is thrown for her to catch for several minutes. Hide the ball and let her sniff it out all whilst on lead

Put the lead on and have a game of tug

Put the lead on and walk back the way you have come for a longer walk

Change the meaning of lead means end of walk.

Call her to you a lot on the walk and just reward and do not put on the lead
Call her to you a lot on the walk and play games with her but do not put on the lead

I dont think it is a matter of her recall getting worse maybe the training and fun has stopped....

Is she rewarded for going back on the lead?

We had a similar issue with our beagle - every time he comes back, we don't just reward him, we hold his collar and reward him - he doesn't get that reward until that hand touches his collar.

Then, we leave him guessing what will happen next - sometimes we reward and release, sometimes he goes back on lead for a minute, then back off, sometimes he's on lead for another ten minutes before he's let off etc.

It sounds like she only goes on lead when it's essential (because the walk is over) so it's hardly surprising that she plays silly buggers. You need to pre-empt her behaviour and use the lead at random points in the walk so she never knows what's coming.

Oh she is having great fun.

That's why you are (or should be) advised to do a collar grab and release mid walk usually multiple times in one walk. Same with clipping the lead on. A recall and /or lead should never always mean the end of the walk.

For now I'd call and then give a great game with a ball or toy, or lots of treats then release off again. Do this until she's looking to come back willingly.

I must admit I have never relied on calling back either. I prefer to teach a check in as it's more powerful. I also use a release for reward now the behaviour is more cemented. So come back to me and you get to go and do what you want to do.

I'd expect my dog to be on a long line with anyone she didn't have a bond with.

Is it always the same three fields where she's walked? Sounds to me like she's getting overfamiliar with the location and a bit bored, so she's making her own entertainment.

Be less predictable! Different locations, different routes around the same fields, that sort of thing.

I always find ddog comes back much more tired after we've been somewhere new too.

It's not always the same fields. Although 95% of the time it is. She's also played up at the beach and in the forest.