Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Flip

Original poster

Puppy searching......

21 replies

Pineapplemonkey · 30/08/2023 10:19

Hello

So can any of you dog experts explain something for me please as I'm a beginner.

If I want a specific breed puppy, I can go to the kennel club website and search for specific breeders of these puppies. I can also use Champdogs and all those dogs seem to be on the KC website as well. But if I go to pets4homes, many of the puppies on there say they are/will be KC registered but they aren't on the KC list- why is this?
Currently I have just contacted all the breeders within a reasonable distance from champdogs (who are also on the KC website) but should I be considering the ads on pets4homes? If they are KC reg surely they can't be puppy farmed?

Thanks for any advice🙂

OP posts:

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 30/08/2023 10:23

But if I go to pets4homes, many of the puppies on there say they are/will be KC registered but they aren't on the KC list- why is this?

Cos they’re lying scammers?
Seriously, stick KC and Champdogs, and even then still do your homework on what to look for in a good breeder. And then follow it through.

Original poster

Pineapplemonkey · 30/08/2023 10:25

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 30/08/2023 10:23

But if I go to pets4homes, many of the puppies on there say they are/will be KC registered but they aren't on the KC list- why is this?

Cos they’re lying scammers?
Seriously, stick KC and Champdogs, and even then still do your homework on what to look for in a good breeder. And then follow it through.

Fair enough, please note that I haven't even considered approaching any of the pets4homes breeders, it was more I was just wondering!

OP posts:

BackToOklahoma · 30/08/2023 10:32

KC really doesn’t prove breeders aren’t bad breeders. They allow breeders who produce lots of litters as long as they show they have a licence to do so. They do not check the conditions the dogs are kept in.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 30/08/2023 10:34

Absolutely what BackToOklahoma said. It’s a start but you really need to know exactly what to look for to determine if you’re dealing with a good breeder even if they are KC registered.

Miragelifeguard · 30/08/2023 10:36

You can also look up the local breed group eg Southern Golden Retriever Society and they will be able to point you in the direction of reputable breeders. You are right to avoid Pets for Homes, not worth the risk/potential upset. Good luck finding your puppy OP!

ErrolTheDragon · 30/08/2023 10:39

The KC website has info on buying a dog, including questions for the breeder, visiting them.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog/

Original poster

Pineapplemonkey · 30/08/2023 10:57

Thanks everyone, think I'll just have to be patient (which I'm finding difficult!), I'm on 3 breeders waiting lists but apparently it may be some time......

OP posts:

LightDrizzle · 30/08/2023 11:00

Also a KC registered dam and sire doesn’t equate to a good breeder.

I could buy a KC puppy and mate it to my boyfriend’s same breed KC dog every year, and raise the litters in an outhouse with little socialisation and I could still register the puppies with the KC. They won’t register litters to the same dam within 12 months of last registration but that’s pretty much the only control as long as both sire and dam are correctly registered. Crossbreeds are dodgy breeder heaven because the pups can’t be KC registered so they advertise their puppies correctly as having KC parents but are free to breed back-to-back litters if they have no ethics. Their buyers can’t have KC registration so even that feeble check is removed.

Not all dodgy breeders are ruthless villains either. Lots of daft people think their Mabel is such a darling it would be nice to “let her” have one litter and keep a puppy, and of course the money from the other puppies won’t hurt…. They don’t do breed appropriate health checks on their own bitch or require them from the stud, - and there you go! Now you are more likely to get lucky with this type of breeder, at least in terms of socialisation and welfare, but it really isn’t good either. You might get very unlucky on health. The sire is unlikely to be the best quality because quality breeders don’t want their kennel name attached to poor quality puppies and are careful about bloodlines when they agree to put their dog out to stud.

Original poster

Pineapplemonkey · 30/08/2023 11:15

It's such a minefield, I don't know anyone in real life who knows about all this stuff and I as I said am a beginner in terms of dogs.

I've researched to death everything I possibly can and plan on asking all the right questions but it still feels like I could go wrong- wish me luck everyone, I think I need it!

OP posts:

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 30/08/2023 11:19

KCC registered is no guarantee of a good breeder, they don’t even have to health test.
Honestly it’ll be worth the wait

Corgiowner · 30/08/2023 11:28

Contact the breed club either local to you area if it’s a popular breed like a Labrador or the national breed club if it’s a rare breed. They will at the very least know who is expecting puppies or possibly who is thinking of having a litter of puppies in the future or you may be lucky and find a breeder who has a puppy because a potential buyer has pulled out. It’s not an absolute guarantee of a healthy puppy but usually members of breed clubs are totally committed to the breed know everything about it and know all about bloodlines etc and will have done the tests recommended by the breed club.

Original poster

Pineapplemonkey · 30/08/2023 11:37

I have contacted the national breed club and they have emailed me a list of their recommended breeders and some general advice, they all seem to be at the other end of the country. Maybe I need to cast my net slightly wider (currently limited it to a 100mile radius). I'm in Dorset, I keep seeing litters in Scotland and NI and that just seems such a long way away! I'm looking for a mini schnauzer which I didn't think were that rare.....

OP posts:

IngGenius · 30/08/2023 12:44

A KC breeder does not mean it will not be a puppy farm

See recent case of Lauren Langman.

You really do have to do your research and quiz and visit and speak to other owners of the dogs. Get involved with the breed club and ask loads and loads of questions.

A KC breeder is not a quaranteed good breeder

LightDrizzle · 30/08/2023 13:12

It’s sounds like you are doing all the right things. The distance is a pain and is often the case. We had a long journey home from West Wales with my mastiff puppy. They seemed to be in Lincolnshire or Wales back then.

The wait will be worth it in the end. The journey with the puppy will probably be stressful. Take food and drink and make sure you have another adult with you so one drives and the other comforts. I’d consider putting a big sand tray in the boot with some turf in it to give the puppy a chance to toilet on it on a stop. Unfortunately they can’t go on the ground before they are vaccinated. Accidents will be inevitable and it might also be sick but it will soon be forgotten.

LightDrizzle · 30/08/2023 13:14

Food and drink for you! To be clear. Obviously water for the puppy.

EdithStourton · 30/08/2023 13:54

You need to work out what it is you expect from a breeder and go from there. For example:
Puppies raised mostly in the home (I am personally happy with some kennel time)
What health tests you want to see (varies by breed)
How closely related are sire and dam (not very if at all)
How much interaction with different people and exposure to various things (the outdoors, random noises etc)
What motivated the breeder to choose that sire?
Does the breeder want to cross-examine you (they should)?

We found a cracking puppy on Pets4Homes by doing our due diligence. The breeder checked us out very thoroughly, was happy to talk me through the pedigree, we visited twice. You have to be careful on P4H, because there are plenty of scammers and frauds, but there are some good litters all the same. Ditto ChampDogs though on average it's better. There are some breeders on there, though, that I'd not touch with a bargepole.

Sarvanga38 · 30/08/2023 14:04

It is a minefield.

The KC puppy list is just an advertising medium that breeders can choose to use or not. In many ways, it is actually one of the worst ways to look at puppies without any further knowledge, as 'Assured Breeders' can add their litters free of charge (or certainly could, assume this is still the same).

Now, you would be forgiven for thinking that a Kennel Club Assured Breeder is a good thing, but unfortunately this is far from always being the case. In some breeds, this will mandate health tests, but in others there are no actual requirements bar paying a fee and being available for inspection (more of this later), so often you will find that it is high volume breeders on there.

Licensed breeders used to be an excellent red flag to avoid like the plague, but messing with legislation has meant that often the good hobby breeders also now need to come under this banner.

Unfortunately, there really is no fool-proof method of buying a puppy these days. Champdogs are perhaps one of the better ones, as they do actually insist on proof of health tests appropriate to the breed (but not always the ones they should, hence some breeds you will rarely/never see litters advertised on Champdogs).

I would start with the breed club, see which health tests they mandate and whether they have a puppy list. Various breeds will have central websites set up by enthusiasts - e.g. if you want a Rough or Smooth Collie by any weird chance, go look at Collielife.

Sarvanga38 · 30/08/2023 14:05

Sorry, just seen you are looking for a Mini Schnauzer. Not quite so much these days I think, but can very much be a puppy farmed breed, so lots of care needed. Breed club is best place to start, as you have done, I would think.

Corgiowner · 30/08/2023 14:44

i travelled 250 miles (one way) for my old dog (not a corgi) I had to go three times once before the pupils were born the breeder wanted to meet me, once at 4 weeks the breeder wanted to show me the only available puppy and again to pick up at 8 weeks, the puppy travelled back happily in the car and a similar distance for my young dog. Personally I think it’s worth driving to get the right dog from a good breeder. You’re likely to have the dog at least 14 years so a bit of driving in the beginning to get a healthy well socialised well bred dog from a reputable breeder seems a small price to pay.

Sarvanga38 · 30/08/2023 14:57

Agree with those who say that you are looking at a commitment of many years, so a bit of driving now seems a small price to pay. Champdogs looks to have several decent MS litters.

Not my breed, but if I were looking for a MS the Nottingham litter is probably where I'd start, looking to check temperaments etc. on a first visit. Various litters there that look decent 'on paper' though.

Sunflowers765 · 30/08/2023 20:46

When I was looking for a lab pup I dismissed any breeder that had more than 2 litters per year and definitely any that had 2 at once. I want my breeder to be 100% focussed on one mum and litter. I dismissed any that had multiple dog breeds., any dogs or bitches that had elbow scores more than zero or hip scores in double figures. Dismissed any that had worse than average COI for the breed. Dismissed any breeders who didn't quiz me thoroughly on what type of home I could offer. Only looked at Champ dogs. Only looked at fully health testing parents. ( you can look up health tests that are recommended for different breeds)
And that's why I waited 6 months and ended up driving 600 mile round trip twice for our pup.
It's a 10/12 year commitment, your pups health and temperament and a lot of money. Don't compromise.

Flip