Raw to non raw

[HappiestSleeping]

Has anyone transitioned from raw to normal? If so, what was your reason please, and what effects did you notice, if any?

My rescue lab has been on raw, and we are moving away for a variety of reasons. I've seen no scientific evidence that raw is better. Anecdotally, his flatulence was much better on raw than my previous dog which had normal food, otherwise no noticeable difference.

That's cats for you 🤣

To be fair, the evangelism about raw only started when someone was very dismissive and critical of it. I find both sides can be pretty unpleasant in their attitude when it's discussed!

I sit happily on the fence. My dog didn't settle on various commercial foods so we did raw to identify what the issue was.
He happily ate a range of meats from the supermarket, and I worked at getting the various ratios right. As he's aged though, he's got fussier and more limited.
I was preparing to swap him to quality kibble when I found an affordable pre-made raw complete that he seems to find acceptable.

I like the PPs plan of kibble breakfast and raw dinner. I'm going to check her links, and see what would work.

Both the dog and I want an easier life as he's aged!

I really wish I'd known about raw with my previous dog. He was always a bit underweight, and I didn't even consider that a different food would suit him better. He was on iambs because research at the time suggested it was best.

I have 4 dogs all on a raw diet and I'd never go back to kibble. If your dogs not thriving off of it then you are doing something wrong. 80-10-10 complete. And add raw veg/fruit/eggs. Probiotic supplement. Oily fish like sardines/mackerel. It's worth the effort for the poos and less farty bums.

I have indeed. The issue isn't whether he will eat it or not, more of a logistical issue for us. Freezer space, fridge space, difficulty taking him away when not having access to a fridge etc.

He eats various types of poo, mouldy food he finds while out on walks, and all sorts of other unmentionable stuff, so it was more a question of whether anyone else has gone from raw to 'normal' food. There are tons of stories of 'normal' to raw, but not many the other way.

@AnnieSnap - if you have seen any papers on raw diet, I would be delighted if you would be able to point me at them please? Thanks.

@HappiestSleeping Here’s one to begin with from 2019. You can look them up yourself using scholargoogle.com
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1098612X19848455

@AnnieSnap thank you. Ironically cross contamination was the other reason we are moving away from raw. Things that doggo would just poo out are a little more worrying for humans.

I shall have a good rummage and see what else I can find 👍

I have 3 dogs, one is fed raw because she became very fussy in her old age and started refusing foods (even Orijen six fish and naturediet grain free wet food) it was easier to feed her raw meat, bones, veg (because she loves crunchy veg) sprats, and supplements. One who eats hills science plan mobility support and naturediet grain free wet food (I hate hills, but it’s the only kibble she will eat, she’s always been fussy, and was on raw for about a month, which consisted of me chasing her around trying to get her to “eat a bloody chicken wing, please!”) and one that eats Jr pet products pate because he’s a yorkie with very few teeth who can’t chew, whether kibble or bone, and struggles with wet food because he just ends up chasing it round the plate. I wouldn’t recommend feeding jr pate as a complete food for anything larger because my biggest dog would need to eat a whole log of it over like 3 days which would work out at £3.33 per day, even Orijen didn’t cost that much 😂.

In terms of transitioning foods, the dog that was on raw briefly, when we finally gave up trying to force feed her raw chicken, I started by cooking the meat we already had (chicken, lamb heart and chicken liver) and feeding her that for a few days (she much preferred it cooked) then I put her on naturediet grain free wet food with the aid of a probiotic (pro plan fortiflora) and slowly fed less wet and more kibble until she was at half and half. I’d have kept her on wet entirely, but she’s a very light eater, and wasn’t eating enough of the wet food (she should have been eating 2 cartons a day where she managed about 1 1/4) she definitely farts more and her poos are definitely smellier, but other than that, she’s fine, she does still have sprats, though, the only part of raw she actually liked, I think.

WRT: people saying raw is terrible and vets don’t rate it; vets don’t like people making their own because the vet can’t be sure the dog’s getting everything they need. I have a cupboard full of various supplements for my raw fed dog, she’s getting all that she would from kibble in terms of added nutrients. Plenty of vets are, themselves feeding raw, and the idea that domestication has evolved dogs to the point that their digestive systems are totally different to wolves is actually wrong. Dogs and wolves both have very short digestive tracts, which is optimised for meat and bone digestion, they are both capable of eating fruits and vegetables, and legumes, nuts, etc… but they don’t NEED those things like they need meat and bone.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2358876-dogs-that-eat-raw-food-rather-than-kibble-have-better-gut-health/

One of the reasons people are horrified about kibble is actually not relevant in the UK. We followed European standards for pet food, which requires it to be of a certain quality- it can't contain condemned meat for example.

I believe in the US the rules are different and the content of their 'meat product' is completely different. As in, really unpleasant to think about.

And when I was researching, there were issues with salmonella contamination in kibble (that made it dangerous for people handling it rather than the dogs).

Update on progress. I made the switch over a period of seven or eight days, gradually reducing the raw and increasing the normal. I switched to a dry food, not necessarily forever but as a first step.

Observations so far is that poo is a little looser, and more plentiful but not significantly so. Flatulence has increased a bit too. He has way more energy and is more keen to eat it. Also, it aids training as I can use it for training more readily than raw. It is easier to keep track of daily allowance.

In researching, there is still a lack of any scientific evidence. The scientific references in previous posts above are mainly related to cats, and what I could find about canine raw mainly concluded that there is a significantly higher risk of cross contamination to humans. Mainly E coli, salmonella, and listeria. Also that home made raw is unlikely to meet the dietary requirements of the animal.

I'm in the UK, so all pet food manufacture is regulated and thus meets a minimum criteria. Also, there are other professional bodies that hold a higher standard (PFMA) which both the maker of the raw I used and the maker of the dry I now use belong to.

It's a mine field and has been very interesting to look in to.

That sounds promising!

We appear to have successfully transitioned to a less convenient form of commercial raw!

I always used human supermarket meat so there were no storage issues.
Now he's on a commercial complete that I have to defrost then refreeze in smaller chunks as he won't eat it soft.

We did do quality kibble on the way, but he lost interest very fast. His stool was bulkier, more frequent and stank in comparison with on raw.

So swings and roundabouts for us, but ultimately the dog made the choice!

Would recommend Wolfworthy kibble, it’s highly rated and DDog eats it mixed with a complete raw twice a day. We were feeding Naturo but less and less was getting eaten and poos were getting ridiculously often and messy. On the raw/kibble poos are still 3 or 4 daily but smaller, don’t smell and crumble away after a day if you don’t pick them up quickly enough. The raw we use is a working dog complete 80/10/10 mix.

What I'd really like to find is a commercial raw that's easier to deal with than frozen. I imagine though, that any tinned or sachet raw would have a preservative in it, and then not be raw as such.

One of the previous posts mentioned a sachet type thing which I need to look at.

Natural Instinct raw comes in 500g or 1kg plastic tubs which are easy to leave in the fridge to defrost and just portion out as you need it. I buy 1kg tubs and divide it into 4 portions as needed.

The free flow mince available from various pet shops is good. Mine likes it, but you need to supplement as it's very basic.
It defrosts in the dish, but very quickly and without smelling. Mine eats it frozen.
It's £4.50 a kg, which is a bit pricey I feel.

Natural Instinct were the raw food I was using. All fine until I wanted to go camping or similar where the lack of a fridge or freezer becomes a problem. This, and cross contamination risk, were the primary drivers for switching.

I had no complaints with Natural Instinct at all. They were way better than Bella and Duke.

I have gone back and forth with raw v kibble for the last 4 years.
She is mainly kibble fed now for two reasons.

1. Dog does not prefer raw. I've used completes (as I am not confident of getting the ratios right myself) and she doesn't like them. She absolutely does not like raw chicken wings, tracheas and the like.. sniffs and goes NOPE. We have more success with freeflow tripe mince but that's it.
2. I have an immunosuppressed son and it does pose some risks.

So, we feed Kibble (now on Millies Wolfheart) in the morning and either kibble or raw (maybe twice a week) in the afternoon. We also camp and faffing about with raw in the middle of a field is just not practical.

I think each to their own. There is a world between pedigree chum and Millies same as there is between 'whole prey' and ' I just feed them supermarket chicken'

I have now settled on Burns complete dry food. He seems to have settled into it now, and there is no discernable difference in poo / flatulence between this and the raw food he was on before to be honest.

I am using a sensitive version, but everything is exactly the same, apart from possibly a little more energy on the dry food.

@Sonolanona the risk of contamination was my primary reason for switching so definitely hear you on that.