Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Help me add a SBT to our family...

58 replies

hopefuldogowner · 20/08/2023 11:53

Hi all,

My DP and I have been in talks for years re adding a dog into our lives. We've decided (finally) on a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Would love to rescue but we have young children so probably not the best route. We will rescue later on in life.

On all of the puppy sites we'd like to use (kennel club, champ dogs etc) they are EXTORTIONATE, talking £1,800-£3,00! We are so set on one but also really hesitant to pay this price. Obviously on the more dodgy sites they seem more reasonable between £500-£1,200.

Understand fully the reason for choosing a reputable breeder and we definitely want to but are the ones on kennel club/ champ dogs etc marked at that price due to being bred as show dogs? We are not interested in this or rebreeding.

The cheaper sites obviously have their dodgy breeders but I've found a fair few which seem to be genuine and the puppies come with full papers, Health tested and KC registered.

My question would be if we were to buy a KC registered puppy from a site for around £1,000 with health tests inc eye tests, seen in family home with Mum and or Dad - would this seem genuine and ok to do?

I'm asking for advice regarding this. Please no advice regarding having a SBT with young children, we've thoroughly researched for years and are sure this is the breed we'd like.

Thanks in advance for your help and advice Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Ricco12 · 23/08/2023 14:06

Some information for you

THE MYTH BEHIND THE COLOUR BLUE

In recent years the colour blue has become very popular and now accounts for the largest percentage of registered colours. Unfortunately the increase in popularity of blue Staffords has lead to irresponsible breeding purely for colour and huge prices being demanded for puppies.

Breeders that breed purely for colour unfortunately make many false claims about their dogs to justify the large price tags.
A few myths -

No blue dog has ever held the award of “Top Stud”

No blue dog has ever been awarded a Ch title in the UK.

No blue dog has black nails or nose (genetically impossible)

No blue dog is solid blue (all blues are genetically blue brindle just the pattern shows more on some than others)

Blue is not rare

Where does the colour come from ?
The colour blue is a result of an abnormality of the black brindle gene, causing a dilution. It is a gene that influences hairs to form with larger, abnormal pigment granules due to abnormalities in melanin transfer and storage. This pigment clumping leads to washed out, or dilute colours. The gene is a recessive one and in order for a dog to have a dilute colour it must inherit the gene from both parents. Blue is quite simply the black brindle gone wrong !

For instance;
A black brindle dog (not carrying the dilute gene) that is mated to a black brindle bitch (not carrying the dilute gene) will produce black brindle pups that do not carry the dilute gene.

A black brindle dog (not carrying the dilute gene) that is mated to a blue bitch will produce black brindle pups but they will all carry the dilute gene.

A blue bitch mated to a black brindle dog that does carry the dilute gene will produce both blue and black brindle pups with all pups carrying the dilute gene.

A blue bitch mated to a blue dog will result in the entire litter being dilute.

The concern is that in blue (dilute) dogs there is an high increased risk of skin issues associated with the dilution.
The continuing bad practice of breeding blue x blue dogs over generations is creating problems such as CDA. This causes much distress to dogs and owners.

Colour dilution alopecia (CDA) is associated with a colour dilution gene, probably at the D locus. Under the influence of multiple genes, dilute hairs form with larger, abnormal pigment granules due to abnormalities in melanin transfer and storage. This pigment clumping leads to washed out, or dilute colours. It is not known if the colour dilution gene is directly responsible for the skin changes or if a linked gene codes for the associated follicular changes. The clumping of pigment leads to distortion of the hair shafts and fracture resulting in alopecia.

Can I show my blue dog ?
If your dog is KC registered then it is eligible to be shown. Blue is a colour recognised in the breed standard. A good dog is a good dog regardless of the colour. A judge does not judge colour only standard.
The reason blues traditionally do not do well in the show ring is primarily they are bred for colour not for standard by most. There are a few good examples of the breed which are blue being shown and doing well.
Join a ringcraft club (even better if breed specific) and come along to a show to watch, you are very welcome.

The most important thing to do when planing any breeding or looking for a puppy is health tests. Please ensure both parents are L2 HGA and HC clear. There are many blues rumoured to be on the wrong paperwork and lots of blue L2 HGA carriers so it is good practice to test even if your dog is hereditary clear.

hopefuldogowner · 23/08/2023 14:15

Hello @Ricco12. Thanks for your concern.

I'm not going to act like I know absolutely everything about the breed, because I don't!

We viewed all of the papers and documentation for both parents thoroughly. I can't remember exactly off the top of my head (I'm at work, too) but they both come from black lines. The stud comes from an M line if that means anything? COI was 7.131%. They were CH Valgo?? I think for Stud.

I can't remember the Mum's exactly but they both had pedigree papers with the tree on.

We will obviously review all of the paperwork again and have our own copies etc.

I was really hesitant on a blue (she's more blue brindle) and I know that they're more prone to skin conditions. We also viewed both parents vet records and neither have had any issues with skin.

Sorry, without the paperwork in front of me at the moment I'm unable to give you more info but hopefully this is a little bit to go by Smile

OP posts:
hopefuldogowner · 23/08/2023 14:18

@Ricco12 Thank you for the extra info. Can also confirm they're L2HGA and HC clear.

OP posts:
Ricco12 · 23/08/2023 14:58

I thought as much sorry to say that stud come from the Bullscaff puppy farming stud .. I’ve copied a post that is from the breed club groups .

Please save yourself heartache and run a mile. Contact your breed club they will help you get a pup not bred for colour from poor lines.

see below I’ve copied for you ..

It's really starting to become apparent that lots of people with BullScaff dogs (a UK Blue Kennel), that have either been sire by Piro of one of his offspring has CDA.
If anything gets brought up to TC you get blocked!
Isn't it time that people stop falling for his rubbish and open their eyes! He isn't interested in the dogs health or wellbeing just the money!

Offspring of moris
He's now deceased aged 4, with neurological problems.

Reposted as comments were turned off

Copy and Pasted

Moris was born on 22 April 2018 and imported from Poland in the Summer of 2020. He was put to sleep in November 2022, it was said from a brain tumour. In his short life and stay in the UK he sired 65 litters - 322 puppies.

His father Piro born on 24 September 2016 was imported from the same Polish breeder (Sama Slodycz) in 2019. Since his stay in the UK he has sired 156 litters - 871 puppies.

There are a few other imported Bullscaff stud dogs that have been added to the business model.

There are 9 separate people registering litters with the Kennel Club using the kennel name Bullscaff.

All the bragging about his dogs being Crufts qualified, the fact is only Valglo My Place Or Yours at Bullscaff has set foot in a UK show ring and only qualified once and that was for Crufts 2022 only, by virtue of being the only dog in the Novice dog class at Bournemouth 2021, where the judge wrote: "15 months, a first experience for dog and owners, shown in good condition. A little short in the leg for balance. His hocks need to strengthen."

These are indisputable facts, not myths perpetuated by Bullscaff.

You will have joined a long list of people blocked by Bullscaff (Terry Courtney) for exposing him for what he is. This is all about money and ego and nothing whatsoever to do with the good of the breed.

Ricco12 · 23/08/2023 15:06

There is currently issues around these dogs lines being suspect, and not SBT but bulldog x . It’s been rasied to KC but they aren’t interested as it’s all about the money for them. If you want further information there is various groups on Facebook you can join

or have a read of this page it gives some of the info behind this whole mess that TC has created in the SBT breed..for money unfortunately.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063248289962

Anyway I just wanted to warn you as knowledge is power and only by raising awareness can we help the breed from being destroyed.

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063248289962

Anonanonanon1 · 23/08/2023 15:09

I agree with the above. I waited a year to get a well bred SBT puppy.

Decent breeders have waiting lists because they don't breed often and pups are often reserved before they are born.
They certainly don't need to advertise.

I wouldn't touch a blue with a bargepole.
Due to the increase likelihood of health problems/skin issues/increased chance of allergies.

They are nearly always bad examples of the breed and anything structurally unsound is more likely to have joint issues.

You don't have to pay big money to get a nice Stafford that looks like it should and is true to type. By true to type I mean in temperament as well as looks, ie being really good with people, fearless and confident in any situation.

This is much more likely to happen through a reputable breeder, and I don't know of any blue breeders that fit that criteria. If a blue pops up in a mixed colour litter that's a different thing, but an all blue litter is to be avoided.

Contact your local SBT breed club and they will know of upcoming litters and be able to advise.
Decent breeders do not charge big money. They breed when they want to keep a pup themselves and are not in it for the profit.

Ricco12 · 23/08/2023 15:21

In years gone past Valglo were a very respected kennel breeding Staffordshire Bull Terriers, some of which were made up to champion. Unfortunately this was many years ago.

In recent years they became a kennel who bred for colour blue Staffordshire Bull Terriers for money and are no longer respected.
Haven’t campaigned for champions since breeding for colour. Sad to see really, but this is what money does to people.

TolkiensFallow · 24/08/2023 09:16

This is a really hard post for me as I hate to rain on any SBT lovers parade and the OP has met and fallen in love with her pup.

Sadly the two posts above are correct and for me the tragic thing is, when looking at the numbers of puppies being farmed (and they're prolifically breeding for money so it is a type of farm but with a nice front) is the statistics for Stafford’s life expectancy. Most won’t make it to their first birthday.

Most reputable breeders try to protect the breed by endorsing family pets as not for breeding. Is yours endorsed?

Blues are beautiful but they’re the puppy equivalent of albino people - genuinely don’t mean to be offensive here but the colouring is due to a genetic difference and breeders are exploiting the money from the fashionable colour purely to make money. It’s not for the health of the dog.

I hear lots of people justify an unethical puppy with the rationale that the puppy is born and they know they can offer it a loving home. I understand that but it enables the problem to continue.

As yourself why this breeder is on pets4homes? If all their dogs are crufts qualified they don’t need to advertise. They wouldn’t need to. Pets4homes has its place for rehoming and you may find a local family who have allowed their bitch “just one litter before she’s spayed” but it’s also a cash cow for irresponsible breeders.

I’m sorry to post this. I know it’s not what you want to hear.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page