Reactivity

[primoseyellow]

Has anyone helped their dogs reactivity by firmly telling their dog not to bark/lunge etc. Im not talking about using an E collar, prong collar etc as obviously I would never do that and would never follow a trainer who did.

But im talking about the trainers that you see online where the method seems to be making the dog feel secure by leading by example and getting the dogs attention on them and just getting on with it. Im aware some online trainers skip steps and do ridiculous showman type scenarios so im not talking about them.

Im asking because after over a year of giving treats etc dog who is scared of men is still the same.

Nothing seems to help my dog. I pull the lead up and in, firmly tell him to stop and reassure him/try to distract but it doesn't work, he still goes off on.

He's just been put on prozac by the vet so hoping that will help with his anxiety.

Have you seen a behaviourist?

@cinnamonfrenchtoast she had been seeing one at rescue but I think maybe we should go down that route again.

@Lovegood is yours a rescue or did something happen as a puppy?

I definitely would recommend it :)

It's great that the rescue had a behaviourist in but you need to learn alongside the dog too. Most training/behavioural work is about the owner getting the timing right so it really helps if they can work with you in person.

One of my dogs we adopted at 11 months from the blue cross. She was reactive, hated my husband and the neighbours etc.
never used any form of being firm. We had the behavioural people from the blue cross come round and to get her to like my husband he'd offer her chicken and pick her up and hug and love her. Gradually over the course of 3 weeks she started to trust people. She gained recall and became a very off lead dog within a month. She learnt that she could trust us, trust others and that life was good.
I find if you act scared, startled, nervous about their behaviour it makes it worse.

You need a behaviourist. There are a lot of reasons for reactivity, fear/agresssion/frustration/over excitement a weird combination of those and other factors.
While the behaviour displayed is similar you need to work out why to best address it.
Also it takes AGES, I’ve got a reactive dog and six months of really solid work and he is so much better but still reactive.

@fullbloom87 that sounds great, well done. @Lastqueenofscotland2 yes I agree I thinks its a combination of thing, although I have been told by a behaviourist that the remedy is the same regardless if its fear/agression/excitement, treats and positive reinforcement. I don't know if this is true as there is so much info out there its confusing.

So far I have a chicken obsessed reactive dog!

Totally agree about the super-high-value treats. We’re doing a lot of reactivity training with ours at the moment and she’s decided that a bit of sausage is a worthwhile prize 😊

Re. firmness, it won’t work because reactivity is not a voluntary behaviour, it’s an emotional response. We have to (over a loooong period of time, as Lastqueenofscotland said) work to change our dogs’ emotional reactions to things, until they reach a stage where they’re unbothered by what were formerly their triggers.

We’re using Absolute Dogs’ DMT technique - it’s worth a look even though everything’s gone tits up with them in the last few weeks. If you google ‘DMT’ or ‘Distraction, Mark, Treat’, you should find an information sheet.

Our DDog definitely made improvements but we still have a long way to go. She’s just turned 2 and has been hard work since she was a puppy, but I’m hopeful we’ll get there. Good luck, OP 😊

There is a really good example of the sort of thing you are asking about over in Honest Hounds/Dundee Dog Training

Jess at Dundee Dog training isn't a "force free" trainer, because she does give clear expectations of the dog in terms of not accepting agression. But, she's also worlds away from the traditional balanced trainer who just goes yank on the lead/tug on the prong collar/high level with an ecollar.

She works in the middle ground of training and behavious modification (nearer the reward based end, but does not passively ignore aggression) - she's not pidgeninholed herself into one "camp" or another- not just fuzzy wuzzy praise, but definitely not harsh punishment. She's the most skilled dog behaviourists I've seen, and I've been in the reactive dog world for years (including volunteering for a frce free organisation for 2 years)

The thing is... the remedy is the same, but how and why you’re using it is different depending on the cause.

If you’re giving out chicken to a scared dog and the timing is off you’re just giving chicken to a scared dog....

Neither, the daft dog came as a puppy to us from a lovely breeder, as did his sister who is totally fine. The vet just said it's pure anxiety.

We have just had a behaviourist in (she is also a qualified vet. Cost over £600!) who said it's all about high value treats and distraction then rewarding positive behaviour. However, my daft dog is a poodle and has 0 interest in food of any kind and will never take a treat. She seemed quite stumped by him as he cannot be tempted away from any situation (for us it would be a dog entering his line of vision for example) because he doesn't eat a thing.

Oh blimey some really rubbish advice from some behaviourists.

Do not ever follow this advice "We had the behavioural people from the blue cross come round and to get her to like my husband he'd offer her chicken and pick her up and hug and love her" Please never ever do this, you have a frightened anxious dog that is conflicted as they want the food but the giver of the food is causing them stress, this situation is an accident waiting to happen.

or

trying to give a dog food when they will not eat - over threshold in the poodle . example. A qualified behaviourist would be able to work out was is rewarding for each dog individually for some it may literally be turning away from the dog as they see it, for others it may be watching the dog from a distance, food may be used but food is not the only reinforcer for many dogs.

You cannot "train" a dog to not be reactive. You need to change the emotional response to a trigger. This takes time. Aversive training or being firm with the dog will not change the emotion but may suppress the behaviour. eg the dog may not bark and lunge as they know something unpleasant will happen. What tends to happen is the dogs holds in the emotion and then will literally get to threshold and the response will be mega. The fear emotion has been increased.

It is not a matter of just giving food when the dog is in the worrying situation.

The dog needs to recognise the food appears because of the situation.

So dont distract your dog with food, dont give the dog food when you see the trigger it must be when the dog has, dont give the food when the trigger has gone or else you are just giving food!

OP what is your dog barking and lunging at?

I do understand that the quick fix of these online trainers is tempting but it does not work long term. In my line of work I have a lot of these owners coming to me to sort out the long term issues caused by this type of training.

Reactivity is about changing emotional response very slowly and carefully over multiple steps from bad to good. No amount of punishment will help. Videos only show a snapshot.

It can be done in house if but it’s ideal if you have help. There are lots of reasons and also things you can do alongside to improve the dogs confidence to help generally as well as working out what is rewarding for that dog as it can vary.

I'd be quite concerned by a behaviourist who seems to think that food is the only thing that can be used as a reward.

Lots of dogs aren't food motivated but that doesn't mean you can't work with them and train them - you just use something different. A squeaky toy, a ball, a fur tug, praise, fuss, a clicker, a high pitched voice etc.

(a clicker isnt a reward)

Yes, I'm aware - I meant a clicker alongside other means of reward like praise or a toy.

I know you know, but didn't want it to cause confusion

@JobDilemmaEmma I will def check out the DMT technique, I have never heard of it before.

@StormMinscGsds also honest hounds sounds like the kind of technique I would like to use, thank you.

@IngGenius she reacts to men and dogs basically, she is food motivated so I think treats would work.

@Newpeep yes that does make sense, I guess her emotional response to men is fear so she needs to associtate men with treats and good stuff.

@primoseyellow if you google ‘distraction mark treat’, the first hit is a PDF of the technique, so you don’t have to give Absolute Dogs any money. Their games-based training techniques are sound and I’m sticking with DMT as it’s working for us, even though like a lot of people I’ve cancelled my subscription for AD recently. Good luck 😊

@JobDilemmaEmma Thank you!