Crating - Do we crate too much?? Not enough??

[MXVIT]

Firstly let me say I'm not at all anti-crating.

It was never really for us as when my little boy came home he went hysterical in his crate (throwing himself against it) so we never really bothered with it because I'm a soft arse.

As he got older (he's 15 months now) I'd leave it open by my desk for him to go in and out if he wanted but he was never that fussed.

I recently got a dog trainer in who said it needs resurrecting so we've been using it more. He'll sleep in there in the day with the door open. He's in there at the moment with the door shut because I'm working and he needs a nap (he was getting tinkerish from overtired) and not a bit put out, bar the odd indignant noise and sideye, nothing a treat cant fix.

He doesnt go in there when home alone, (he's not actually home alone much which is another story)

Its always just seemed a bit odd to me that we crate our dogs - I remember reading its illegal in some countries which is so strange to me given how other countries are evangelical about it!

Again I'm not overly pro or anti, just interested. I'm really not trying to start a debate either. We're all here because we love our dogs dearly.

Do you crate? Did you? What do you think of it.

I crate trained my dogs incase they ever had to go to the vets, i also muzzle trained for this reason so that nothing was new and unknown for them. I also like how it gives them their own area if the house is too noisy as i have 2 young children who know not to go to the dogs bed. But ill be honest, once they were trained and used to the crates we stopped using them and got rid of them.

I crate but it's trained very very slowly over months and then time is built slowly. It's a great skill and as an agility competitor fairly essential that they have a chill space at competition and training.

Ours sleeps in an open crate in her room which is her choice. When she was a tiny puppy we did shut the door but only when she was asleep and then opened it when we could hear her stirring.

I don't crate at home (other than the training) as by the time we leave ours for any length of time she's not going to be chewing anything and she would have been again, built up slowly on time at her pace so won't be a stress chewer.

It's a great skill for them to learn but not essential. Crate training is NOT shutting them in against their will. That is cruelty.

I never crate-trained mine just because it's never really been necessary. We don't have small children and our home is fairly quiet (just two adults and two cats at the time) so there was no real need for him to have his own quiet space.

He's since been crated at the vets and in people's cars with no issue.

I have no issue with people using crates properly if that's what they want to do, but equally I don't think they're essential and it's perfectly possible to raise happy, well-adjusted puppies without one.

Never used a crate but dog is crated at the groomers every six weeks and has been crated at the vets with no problems. Haven't needed a crate at home, the house is quiet and no children and she's a lap dog and happiest sitting on or next to a human rather than taking herself away. When home alone she goes to her bed in the spare room but she has the run of the house if she wants it.

Why does the dog trainer think it needs resurrecting?

We had a crate but didn't really persevere as they were never fans. Elder pup has since been crated at the vets and in the dog walkers car and it's never been an issue. They both love the car and the boot is their safe space when we go to dog activities where they have to chill between turns.

Never used one. Never seen the point of one. Ddogs have never been destructive though. If a dog was chewing up the house, I'd see the point sharpish!

My dogs are crate trained

Crate training rarely takes months to do. It can be taught as a fun game in several days for most dogs. The difficulty is getting them out of the crate if taught correctly.

They travel in crates in the car/van
We do a lot of home and international travel with the dogs for work and they need to be crated in some accommodation resting

They are working dogs and crate means chill out time for them - they go into their crates and will always sleep

In strange environments they will always be happy and relaxed if their crate is there

The door does not need to be shut on the crate for the dogs to stay in the crate - door is only shut for safety reasons

I never ever ever use a crate for behavioural work or punishment

They never go into their crates unless feed , toileted and exercised

I use them for puppies. I pop them in a crate beside the bed at night til they're housetrained. Keeps them contained, they settle happy because I'm there and, when they wake needing a pee, I wake too.

Other than that, the only time they're crated is for safety when travelling or at the vets.

It's useful to have a dog that will settle in a crate, because vets use them, and because you may need to keep them still after injury or surgery. But I'm not a fan of routine use after the puppy stage.

Depends on the dog. Last one was a rescue with history. It took me a year but once taught was invaluable. She loved her crate and it was her space wherever we went.

Pup I could have gone faster but other things to teach and it wasn’t a priority compared to other things. I do have the problem of getting her out now though 😂

Mine is crated at night, in the day I'm happy for her to snooze wherever but she prefers to go in her crate. Obviously she can go in and out when she wants but only seems to properly settle down and sleep when I close it 🤷🏼‍♀️

Both my dogs are crate trained. First was a rescue who can still be very anxious of loud noises and people coming round, so his crate is his safe space. It’s rarely closed apart from at night but he often takes himself in for a little snooze.

puppy is also crate trained. I WFH and need time to not constantly have my eyes on him, as well as helping with enforced nap times.

Puppy is still coming round to the idea (doesn’t cry or bark when he’s inside but does give me those puppy dog eyes!) both are fed by their crates, get treats in their crates and licky mats, comfy bedding and blankets. It’s a nice place for them to be, but don’t spend longer than an hour inside other than night time.

We didn’t use one we just dog proofed part of the hallway when he was tiny . He is happy in a cage as he’s spent a fair bit of time at the vets and occasionally at the groomers if there is a dog in that he didn’t like . My issue is that most dog cages give the dog less room than is recommended for a Guinea pig and I wouldn’t be happy to shut a dog in overnight . I also think that they are abused by many people who leave dogs in them for excessive periods .

I did crate train and it has been so useful. When my dog had a spinal injury and needed to be crated for 6 weeks it was a godsend. The dogs take themselves off to the crate when they don’t want to be interrupted- helpful with a crawling baby. One of my dogs eats in her crate every day because she’s greedy and would eat the other animals meals given the chance!

Crate size is a choice. Personally I’ve always gone bigger than recommended. I’ve just bought our adolescent dog a crate for travelling now she’s mostly crate trained and gone for the recommended size as it’s safer for travel. To me it looks tiny! It’s up in the house while she gets used to it and she’s bombing into it and sleeping by choice so she must be happy. She can fully stretch out in it so probably smaller than some people would use too.

They recommend small as then they can’t soil it if shut in but I’ve never used a crate for that, just to stop tiny pup wandering off at night or to keep an adult dog safe in strange places.

Even the XL crates are smaller than recommended for a guinea pig

Let's face it these cages are called crates so they seem less harmful then they are.
I think a cage is fine to use for very specific reason such as when they're little newborn puppies, in the car, at the vets and groomers.
My dogs go in one in the car and at the vets and groomers and are fine but I would never lock them away at home.
If it's about creating personal safe space for them, you can buy some perfectly decent Kennel style beds for dogs without the need for a lockable door.
I think many people use them incorrectly. I've seen threads where people will leave them locked up all day while they're out and all night like a hamster.
A lot of people use them because they can't be bothered to train their dogs.

Yes because that’s their whole environment 😉 Crates for dogs are or should be for short periods of rest or confinement for safety. Most people I know use them for that. I don’t personally know anyone who uses them for hours or unkindly. If you work or compete your dog which is in its best interest for a lot of breeds it is essential they have a safe rest area. As a pet owner then there isn’t much need as most will cope for the odd period in the vets or groomers.

They’re also incredibly useful to keep cats safe when moving house 😂

This morning I witnessed a dog walker slap their dog across the face with its lead. All leads are cruel.

Same.

Dog always had a crate when he was a puppy and his bed was in there, so he did spend time in there but I never shut the door. I just bought him one because it was the done thing and I thought I was being responsible. I don’t even know where the crate is now… it disappeared years ago. But he can get on the big bay window ledge in the lounge where the kids can’t reach him; I do think it’s important he can go somewhere to sleep away from them.

I only used it when my dog was a puppy at night because it did seem to help calm her and with toilet training, she obviously didn’t want to mess in her crate so would bark to let us know to let her out, when she wasn’t in the crate she would just mess on the floor away from her bed.

I think it’s got out of control in America, I’ve seen people say their adult dog is in a crate all day and all night and apparently this is fine because they are let out at lunch and for a few hours in the evening! Also, it’s interesting that they are called crates and not cages, when they are clearly cages, I imagine it’s because crate sounds less cruel.

We've never crated our retired greyhound - he's been perfectly capable of choosing his own "safe spaces" in various parts of the house. He had no problem being in a crate at the one time he had to stay at the vets - and was described as being "the perfect patient". That said, he's obviously been used to living in kennels and travelling in crates to races (and like many retired greyhounds has always been incredibly excited at the prospect of a car journey).

They do seem to be a relatively recent thing - from the USA? I do suspect that they're more for the convenience of the owners than the benefit of the dog.

Each to their own . Many dogs are in cages 10+ hours in a 24 hr day , to me that is too long to be shut in such a small space , I have no issue with them for car journeys / a few hours at an event / vets etc . I think the normalisation of caging dogs has made it much easier for people to own a dog because they can do so without having their house chewed etc . I think what really made me think was when I was at the vets one day and a couple came in with a small dog ( bichon size ) on a lead and a cat in a small cage and than sat saying to the dog ‘ are you cross that kitty is in your crate ‘ . The cage was barely big enough for the cat and the thought of that poor dog being trapped in that was simply hoffirying . I accept that these people were probably the exception and lots of people go for xl cages even for smaller dogs but this was likely sold to them as the correct size for a small dog . I doubt they are the only people that own a small cage as many houses wouldn’t be able to house a very large one .

I move in dog circles. I know nobody in this country who uses a crate like that. I know lots of pet owners. I know none that use a crate like that. Even the most old school trainers don’t use crates like that.

America is the exception where I know it can be common to crate dogs for 10 hours a day. We’re not America and thank goodness our training and understanding of behaviour has moved a lot way from theirs!

They’re a new thing for pet owners and as above I’d not recommend one for the majority. As a trainer it’s not something I’d recommend unless you had specific circumstances.

In training and showing they’ve been a thing for years but the dogs are trained over a period of time using high value rewards to see the crate as a rest place. I trained my last dog as she loved camping but found night times stressful (very common). So I trained her over many months and that fixed the issue. She could enjoy camping in the day and then retreat to her safe comfy space at night. When we started competing in agility her crate was her car rest space between runs. Whilst I was sat there with her. I’ve never day time crated at home and don’t intend to.

@Newpeep people cage overnight that is at least 8 hours in a cage which is a third of a day , just because it’s night time it still counts as hours in a day . I was then adding 2 hours for odd occasions when people might shut them in during the day . I’m not talking about people who cage all day while they are at work with perhaps a walk as a break and if you think these people don’t exist then you are looking through rose coloured glasses because there have even been threads on here where people have admitted it .