Puppy farm vibes?

[Ihearnoises]

We have both had dogs before and lost ours last year but they have always been rescues so first time puppy search. We can’t seem to rescue now we have DC and haven’t found anywhere that would accept us. I’m not fully committed to rush in but I know DH is really keen.

Went to see a puppy recently with DH which we ended up waking away from. Does this give puppy farm vibes? I was feeling wary to start with. The dogs were not expensive compared to a lot of others we have seen. Personally I would rather pay more from a reputable breeder or not at all if we can’t afford it, but DH wanted to check this one out as it was local.

Breeder didn’t have either parent dog present with the pups who were about 12 weeks. Pups looked generally healthy, bouncy, were eating, playing, friendly, not wary of us. I handled them all in terms of playing, touching them gently and they were not nippy whatsoever and happy to be touched even on their tummies. They looked clean and didn’t have anything visually off about them, no weeping eyes, they were bright and seemed fairly well cared for.

They seemed attached to the breeder and looked for her when she went outside. The place was not a family home, I think a male was living in it, sparse and not many homely touches but it wasn’t awful or dirty. One puppy seemed to have bad smelling gas and be ever so slightly less bouncy than the others. Breeder is feeding them cheap food.

They did go and get the mother when we asked but didn’t seem keen to do it and brought out an extremely obese female dog who apparently didn’t want to be with pups anymore as they seemed to annoy her by keep trying to feed from her. Mum dog was really friendly to us but wasn’t interested in the pups although they were excited by her being there. There was paperwork but this could be anything from anywhere, who knows if legit. Sometimes the story varied when I asked a question, just slightly but she did admit to breeding regularly. We all chatted a lot to ask each other questions but I felt the tone change when we were still undecided and breeder got slightly snippy (maybe that we were wasting their time).

Non refundable deposit was asked (we didn’t pay it) but they were open for us to book a 2nd visit when we asked if we could have more time, although said they wouldn’t hold any dogs without a deposit (I wouldn’t expect them to and we didn’t ask this).

DH agreed to walk away from this one for now, it’s just so hard to really tell. I also think he’s more open to taking a risk from this type of breeder if I didn’t keep him in check!

About 100 red flags. Of course it was a puppy farm.

Potentially yes, but when my bitch had a litter she got really sick of the puppies by about week 7/8 and we started letting her have a lot of time away from them as she was growling and nipping at them.

If the pups are 12 weeks old why are they still there? Usually people home dogs from 8 weeks. Lots of breeders have been caught out by the change in demand since covid so don’t have homes for all their puppies.

It does sound like one

Some of them had gone already. I don’t know if it’s the slightly dodgy set up that’s off putting and why they are still there, I mean that’s what put me off.

I have no personal experience of buying a pet (rather than adopting) but if I had any concerns about welfare of any animal visited, and what you’ve described certainly would raise them for me, then I’d be calling RSPCA/SSPCA for advice on whether anything could be done to check up on them

I thought about this, it’s mostly the health of obese mother dog that was concerning. The breeder said she wasn’t going to have more litters from that dog but who knows. The pups themselves seemed happy, calm and well apart from one who had a bit of a tummy upset. They had toys water beds and food. They weren’t scared of the breeder and clearly knew her well. It wasn’t enough to be really awful just something off

If you have done your research and asked all the sensible questions yet still have that gut feeling something something isn't quite right, trust your gut
Even registered breeders aren't a guarantee, dodgy people know how to get round the regulations.
Honest breeder will be happy to share whatever you ask for, won't make you feel you are a time waster & will ask you as many, if not more, questions than you ask them
We bred for first time a few years ago. Some buyers just agreed our sensible asking price, others offered lower & we accepted when we were sure they were genuine buyer who could offer appropriate home.
It's a two way process I think

@Peanutbutterandmarmalade64 this is what DH says, anyone can be dodgy some are just better at hiding it than others. He insisted on seeing the mother of the puppies because we didn’t even know if these puppies were brought to the property just for the viewing. Breeder had multiple other dogs apparently but we only saw the mother of pups and one other adult dog briefly who was not obese, of the same breed. DH knew I wasn’t keen so walked away but as the puppies were well tempered I know he is still considering them.

Did the obese ddog looked like it had recently fed puppies? Maybe the real dm was already pregnant elsewhere...

If you get any feeling in your gut that something is not right then walk away and it sounds like you picked up on a number of red flags.

Is it a particular breed you are looking for? A genuine breeder who loves the breed would know the care that the dog needs and would not let the mum become obese. Did the mum
Show any signs that she had been nursing? It is not unusual for mums to become fed up with the puppies after a while but the puppies should have shown signs of wanting to be near mum and feeding from her.

Are they kennel club registered? Whilst this does not guarantee the welfare of the puppies, there are rules in place regarding the number of litters a mum is allowed to produce in order for the puppies to be kc registered.

You can also conduct social media searches on the breeder - do they show in searches for the breed, for example at gundog trials if it is a gundog? Can you find them on Facebook and you might family pictures of them with the mum looking happy.

You should also look up the breeders phone number to see if they are linked to similar ads for dogs. If they breed a variety of breeds then that could be an indication of a puppy farm. Reverse image search on all th photos used in the advert in case the puppy farmers have stolen the images from elsewhere.

Sounds very suspect and if you do buy a pup from them or others like them then you are fueling the fire , if people stopped buying pups from puppy farms then there would be less of a market for them .
I'm a vet nurse and we see the results of this awful trade these people don't care about quality just quantity ,there are so many red flags in what you have said.

@Jellybebe the breeder said mum wasn’t keen to nurse and then dropped in at the end she had to hand raise them! This is why they were really attached to her I imagine. Mum was just really fat all over. Breeder said she was eating a lot, initially said mum was fed raw diet during pregnancy but this was more than just pregnancy weight the dog was massive. Pups were excited to see mum and climbed all over her. Dog was more excited to see us. I will check all those other things. Breeder said both parents kennel club but the ad has no breeder name so I can’t check? It just has one first name on it and no other ads under that name.

No parent dogs present is the biggest and most glaring red flag. I didn’t need to read any further.

On the Kennel Club page you can search for breeders by breed. Worth checking if there's an accredited breeder at that address?

I agree, though. If your instincts are that it is off, then walk away.

The really overweight bitch might be pregnant and not the dam of the pups you saw. This is clearly a dodgy operation.

12 weeks is highly unusual for rehiring puppies. The only people I know who do this are breeders with quite unorthodox (yet very comprehensively explained and rather niche and obsessive!) reasons. In the absence of that I would 100% presume puppy farm or dogs brought in from overseas. In which case you need to be aware of imported dog diseases that are often incurable.

get a pedigree from a breed club recommended breeder or a breed specific rescue. They are often much more open to families than the big rehiring charities.

*rehiring not rehiring

Oh for ffs sake. Re homing !

@Radiodread the ad has been up for weeks now I can see, and they still have puppies left. She was keen to rehome them ASAP. I cannot find a kennel club breeder within 30 miles of my house for the breed she said she had that was KC. I can’t find anything about the seller at all

This sounds more and more dodgy, I really would advise that you to not get one of these puppies and wait for the right breeder and litter to come along. A genuine kc breeder would be proud of the litters lineage and you would have been able to look up the dam and sire yourself. Contact the breed club and they will hopefully be able to point you in the direction of responsible breeders.

Where did you find the ad @Ihearnoises ?

Forever puppy but I am not sure this is any better than pets4homes really as you can surely evade their systems

You really are better off sticking to Champ dogs or KC puppy finder website to give you the best chance of finding a breeder.

There are KC reg dogs that are puppy farmed but it’s less likely.

Like you we’d always rescued, and then couldn’t (cat). It took us a while and quite a few viewings with some obvious dealers (shop front for puppy farm). In the end we bought from a breeder who we found on the KC. She didn’t normally advertise but had a buyer pull out. Met multiple generations and full siblings, one who was boarding with her and one her own she’d kept to continue the line. Full health tests and all paperwork available. Spoke at length about her dogs and no pressure. We were not allowed to decide there and then. We had to go away and think about it. We spoke to the sires owners too. Chaotic but lovely environment and no red flags.

Just dipping back in to this thread. A puppy will be with you for a minimum of 12 years. Don't rush the decision, very tempting when you meet adorable bundles that tug heart strings. You must be ruled by your head in these decisions, they will affect your life for many years to come! I have been coerced (by STBX & DCs not aware of bigger picture) to take on pups in the past. It has not worked out well for various reasons!!
I hope whatever decision is made, it works out well for you

This is a genuine question if someone wants a specific breed why don’t people go through breed clubs. For popular breeds there will be regional ones for less popular national clubs. I accept that this isn’t fool proof but if a breeder has decided to join the relevant breed club they are IME usually exceedingly committed and knowledgeable about the breed and want to breed happy healthy well socialised puppies and undertake every health test.
just to add not actually physically seeing the father is not a red flag in fact the opposite. A good breeder will very carefully choose the right father looking for one that compliments and improves their own breeding lines, often travelling many miles to him not just use their own dog or a local one. But details including photos/videos etc health tests pedigree and where available show wins of the father should be provided as routine. For both my dogs I was given the fathers contact details so I could contact his owner and visit if I wanted.