Snappy cockapoo

[TTC79]

Hi there, we've got a 7 month old cockapoo male, he is not neutered yet. We have noticed that he loves playing with high energy girls, but if they are not showing much interest he snaps at their face, doesn't bite them but does a fake bite thing. Sometimes the female gets upset and retaliated which we don't want obviously. If we tell him off he is good and sits down. I haven't noticed him doing it with boys, is this a mating thing? And should we get him neutered now?

He's way too young to be neutered - you need to wait until he's fully grown which will be at around 18 months of age.

Neutering likely won't solve anything anyway - his behaviour sounds more like over-excitement than anything hormonal. Personally, I would be keeping him on a lead and not allowing his behaviour to escalate to the point where other dogs feel the need to tell him off.

The last thing you want is for him to approach the wrong dog and end up getting bitten or attacked.

Don’t let him play with other dogs if he can’t play nicely or someone will get hurt

He's too young to be neutered and it won't help.

Sounds like he's trying to entice them into playing - "bitey face" is a legit game for a lot of dogs, and if they find a like-minded friend it will be very mutual.

It's all part of him learning that appropriate play with one dog isn't appropriate play with another dog.

I'm not suggesting that you purposefully let another dog get very upset, but a measured telling off is a normal thing, and there are some social skills that can only be taught by other dogs.

I'm not suggesting that you purposefully let another dog get very upset, but a measured telling off is a normal thing, and there are some social skills that can only be taught by other dogs.

The problem with this train of thought is that the other dog may not give him a "measured telling off". If he approaches the wrong dog he could find himself on the receiving end of a nasty bite.

Do not let other dogs tell your dog off.

So many reasons this can go wrong.

Castration will not make any positive difference - possibly make things way worse. Do not consider castration until at least 18 months old.

I would prevent him from playing with high energy girls. Ne needs to play with calmer dogs and learn the correct way to meet and greet.

Hi everyone, thank you so much for the advice. We will hold off castration, another issue is that the bloody doggy daycares don't accept intact dogs. Anyway, he is actually fine playing with high energy girls, he enjoys it and cant keep up!! It's the ones that he can't play with that he "play bites". We are keeping him on lead unless there are no dogs around until he has his 121 training end of the month.

Don't let daycare influence your decision to castrate either way. Many male dogs benefit from being kept entire and while castration does have some health benefits, it can exacerbate other issues so it's not a decision to make lightly.

Once he's old enough, you could consider chemical castration - see if it has any impact on your dogs' behaviour (positively or negatively) before making the decision permanent. Not all vets offer it though so you may need to ask around.

Daycares are in a difficult position as they have to balance the needs of multiple dogs from multiple homes and it's often easier for them to have a blanket policy of "all males over 12 months must be neutered". Their policies are for their benefit not necessarily for the benefit of the individual dogs.

There are also many daycares who do take entire males. I'm a dog walker and have several entire males on my books who all attend kennels and daycare with zero problems whatsoever.

You can neuter any time after 6 months by the way, smaller dogs are usually ok younger than larger dogs who should wait until 9 months but if there's major issues most vets favour earlier

Advice nowadays is to wait as long as possible, and in many cases, not to neuter at all. Early neutering can cause multiple issues with joints and skeletal development, and it can also cause permanent behavioural issues in some dogs.

Six months is far too young for neutering.

Doggy daycare might not be the right thing for him btw, what you’ve got is a dog with a fairly common social skills issue, he’s being a bit of a bully and trying to force them to play when they don’t want to.

Daycares are often a bit of a free for all and eventually he will get a dog forcing him to back off when he doesn’t take the hint.

In general, just stop him going up to dogs you don’t know, there’s very little benefit in it anyway and often adult dogs don’t want to play the same, let him play with dogs you know and know they’re happy with his play style, but not the others.

I see a lot of young dogs do this - the rather obnoxious approach to getting play out of the other dog. It's possible that the fact that the other dog is a female is just making him too excited to have much self control.

Despite that, I wouldn't neuter at this age. I'd use the first sign of this behaviour as the cue that you need to step in and take him under control (house lead etc). Repeated often enough, he will mature and grow out of it.

Even better if you have control before the dogs get to each other and then only release your dog to interact freely when he is showing signs of being calm and polite. Which may be hardly ever at this age

On the topic of letting one dog correct another, I think this Facebook post from a qualified clinical animal behaviourist sums up the nuances really well
https://fb.watch/lToFeKEkuC/

Is he trying to play bitey face? Cockerpoos are funny as you never know the temperament mix, I tend to avoid them with my lurcher cross (also 7 months) as most don't like her bitey face play style. But her best friend is a spaniel who loves it so maybe yours has a strong spaniel side. I know you get a lot of 'there's no need for them to play with other dogs' posts on here, but the dog owners round here obviously aren't on mumsnet as dog play in certain fields is normal 😄 I keep a close eye on things to make sure the dogs have a compatible play style and if I see they don't it's lead back on and we go elsewhere.

See I don't know if it's bitey face or a flirting thing, he doesn't do it with the boys, just the girls, no matter how old or young they are. He is an energetic player, like I said he had a lovely play with a crazy shitzu girl so maybe it's about finding the right match for him. With boys he tends to sniff them and thats it, we are mostly keeping him on the lead atm because he will go on a sniffing expedition and im afraid he will just carry on. I will check the fb video out-thank you

Try not to humanise your dog - they have no concept of flirting

It may be that he goes for girls because they smell different though - my own (neutered) male dog is much happier around neutered males and females than he is around entire males, and dogs can definitely smell if another dog is entire or neutered etc.

He also adores a game of bitey face but now he's older, he does seem to understand that not all dogs enjoy it so it could just be that your dog is young and excitable and needs to learn his boundaries a bit.

I definately think dogs do flirt!

To zoomorphise it, I definately think there are some females that males are more attracted to than other females and males, maybe linked to fertility but also not always directly - and that biology therefore drives them to be offer more friendly behaviours towards those females. (and vice versa)

Courtship type behaviours, to give it a more scientificy term. Even if they are neutered themselves and haven't the drive or knowledge to follow through on the courtship.

Dogs have a huge variety of courtship behaviours and play features pretty highly. The bitey face (my favourite term ever!) can form part of a partially-formed courtship.

He just tried to attack another large dog, we now think it might be lead related where he is on lead and feels threatened by a larger dog off lead. The previous owner has said that they never encountered any of these behaviours and that he was always off lead and loved to play with other dogs. We just don't know what to do. He has some training coming up so hopefully that helps somewhat to understand his behaviour.

Quite a lot of dogs are snappy little gits on lead and delightful off lead.

If you think in terms of fight Vs flight, it makes perfect sense. When they are on a lead they are fully aware that "flight" isn't an option so they opt for fight much more rapidly.

Being on a lead also restricts some of the subtle body language that dogs use to communicate their non threatening intentions - for instance walking in a straight line up to another dog is rude (even though that's what we do naturally on a pavement!), whereas approaching along a curved line is much more polite but unachievable on a short lead.

PS as a result I avoid greetings when DDog is on lead. He's fine off lead though.

Yes, there have been several instances where off lead larger dogs have approached him and he has panicked and got scared, and it has come out as barking and aggression. With small dogs he is fine on lead to meet. He is only 8 months old so is still a baby. I do wonder that if he was off lead when these larger dogs approached then he would just run off if he became uncomfortable

Personally I don't allow any on-lead greetings unless it's a dog we already know.

Lots of dogs feel trapped on the lead and as they can't run away, they feel like their only defence is to bark/growl as they know that will (hopefully) get the other dog to bugger off.

Some dogs are also frustrated greeters and don't like being restricted by a lead - unfortunately my dog is prone to both feeling trapped and frustrated so it's safer for me to just keep him away from other dogs.

That is a great link.

One of my dogs does exactly that if she's rushed by a young and loutish dog (esp GR or Lab, who are big and fond of the full frontal approach). Most owners see this for what it is: ' Ha, she's done him a favour, maybe he'll show more respect next time.'

As for leads, I tend to avoid on-lead greetings unless my dog already knows the other pretty well and they get on. If we end up having to have one, I'll keep the lead as loose as possible (to give the illusion of freedom), but be ready to snap it tight and pull out if anything kicks off. Even confident dogs like my older one can dislike first meetings on the lead, and that's even more the case with nervous IME.

I do wonder that if he was off lead when these larger dogs approached then he would just run off if he became uncomfortable

For most dogs, they're unlikely to actually leg it, knowing they have the option if it was ever necessary is sufficient.

Much more frequently, they'll walk slowly away as one of a number of calming signals that aren't really open to them on a lead.

Turid Ruugas's book is worth a read
edisciplinas.usp.br/pluginfile.php/3873275/mod_resource/content/1/On%20talking%20terms%20with%20dogs_%20Rugaas%202006.pdf