Cruciate ligament

[DarkSignOfTheMoon]

My dog (30kg) starting limping on his rear leg after getting up one evening. I saw the vet the next day, who manipulated the leg until he reacted and than said he thought he'd damaged his cruciate ligament.

He's on painkillers and rest for a week when I have to take him back to see the ortho vet to discuss whether or not surgery might be needed; presumably x-rays would be the first step.

Has anyone had this with a larger dog?

My understanding is that in a dog that size, self healing with rest is almost impossible and surgery is usually required.

Has anyone had that surgery and did they have TPLO or MMP, do you know?

He's insured with a great cover so cost is not a concern. More I am worried about a poor dog that always seems to have something wrong with him (skin infections, thyroid - all sorted or managed now), having to undergo yet another round of treatments and possibly some big surgery. I am trying to gather as much info as I can before we go back, just so I am prepared and can think about questions etc.

Can anyone help?

DDog had TPl on both hind legs , many many years ago . Large breed 50kg + . Lived a long and happy life but had to be pts when her leg's finally gave up . At this point she had lived longer than her breed average.
It was very difficult after the operations keeping her confined and limited exercise.

TPLO that should be 🙈

Yes our big dog snapped a cruciate ligament at about 10 yrs of age had the surgery and spent months on enforced rest. It had a long lasting effect and Ddog never really recovered mentally or physically. I’m not sure we’d do it again.

GrouchyDog broke her cruciate when she was 3. We had a version of the TPLO (a bit less invasive, so recovery was much shorter - she was allowed to go for short walks a week or so later). Nearly 2 years on and she hardly has a limp. She did, however, develop arthritis in the joint, for which she had plasma therapy (which has also worked great).

She's a Newfie so it wasn't unusual even for one so young.

If your dog is young enough then I'd go for it.

She had Tibial tuberosity advancement (TTA).

I have a JRT, so small, but she had the operation five years ago, made a fantastic recovery and is still powering along at 14.

I have a small dog (less than 10 kgs) who is 10.

He did his left ACL in Feb and had MMP. Lots of drugs required to crate him and difficult to enforce rest but made a great recovery at the 14 week mark.

Until last week he did the right ACL (common, once one goes, the other is carrying more load).

Due to cost we did de Angeles method on the second one 3 days ago and he has coped really well, moving around more and on vet’s recommendation he is not crated but confined to a carpeted room to allow him some movement to allow both knees to recover and not lose so much muscle tone.

If I had my time again I’d do de Angeles both times.

Answers! Thanks everyone.

Mixed bag from everyone. I'm glad for those whose dogs recovered and did well with the surgery.

@NotLovingWFH I'm so sorry to hear about your poor dog. Do you mind me asking how they never really recovered - what were they like physically and mentally afterwards?

@GrouchyKiwi interesting to hear about your good results with TTA

@ThePoint678 really good to hear about your second experience. Sadly, I don't think deAngelis method is viable in larger dogs. They need a more robust fix but really glad it worked well for your dog.

Thanks again everyone. He's been fine, off painkillers, on his leg today. But then it's hot and he's not used it so much.

Vet on Monday.

7 year old lab had it. Fully reccovered afterwards and lived an active live until 16.

Recovery was ok and he was ok on crate rest for 6 weeks and then restricted exercise. He only did the one leg and it gave him many more happy years.

We got a dog buggy so were able to get him out and about during the crate rest period and he loved people watching from the crate in the back of the car so nowhere need as bad as I imagined it would be

Thanks very much @IngGenius - heartening to hear it went smoothly for your lab, he only ever needed one leg doing and lived many, many more active years.

We just got the last health thing sorted and I was really looking forward to a long spring/summer/autumn of good walking with him. It's such a shame we're having to take it easy again. It's nice to hear that we might still get those walks in the future.

The De Angelia technique is known as the lateral fabella tie by most Vets in the U.K. and is only suitable really for dogs less than 15kg.

Very occasionally I have done it in dogs up to 30kg where the owner really can not afford any other surgical options, but always with strongly advisement that there is a very high risk of suture failure.

@DarkSignOfTheMoon physically the repair apparently went well but DDog just seemed to age a lot during the recovery and was never really ran again just walked. Don’t know what the surgery was called but it was major and DDog had to be crated for months on vet’s instructions and allowed out for 5 minutes a few times a day. It was awful for a dog that hadn’t been apart from us in years and definitely affected them. DDog just seemed to go from an exuberant middle aged dog to an old dog very quickly and never got that joie de vivre back afterwards. DDog lived another 2 years after before dying of an unrelated illness and I’m not sure it was worth the pain. Maybe a smaller or less active and joyful dog wouldn’t have been affected so badly, at tge time we’d have done anything but with hindsight we regret it I think.

Very active Collie diagnosed via xrays at vet aged about 7 or 8 (rescue). Decided dog would not take kindly to cone of shame or stitches, so read up on other methods. Was going to order a support but didn't find one reasonably priced and in stock by which time recovery was apparent. Box rested dog - no walks, no ball games, no climbing on furniture, basically no activity, then appeared to recover after 10 days and gradually reintroduced exercise after that, didn't reintroduce walks properly for a good 6 weeks, longer for ball games. Healed itself.

Or the dog was reacting with a bad limp for no reason - we are convinced she sometime limps with a front leg if we've been out a lot as a measure to make us feel sorry for her and stay in. But that doesn't explain the £500 xrays that apparently showed she needed an op (why are dog vets SO much dearer than horse vets who come to you with portable equipment?)

I think you should have a very high probability of good walks. Many dogs I know have had a cruciate repair and gone back to agility, gundog work and bac to work as sheep dogs.

In my anecdotal experience it usually has very successful results

Thanks @NotLovingWFH

I definately think there are dogs that somehow cope with restrictive recovery better than others and it's sad to think yours did not. Especially, with the hindsight of knowing how much time they had left, I could well see how you might look back and wonder whether it was the right thing to do. I suppose all we can do is try to make the best decision at the time with the info we have.

Vet apt this afternoon with 'the ortho guy' to talk about how he's doing and what/if next steps are needed.

Back from the vet: no surgery (yet).

He's walking fine without the painkillers etc. So we're to watch him and slowly work him back to normal walking. But expect he may go on to damage the ligament further in the future, which is likely to need surgery - eventually. MMP probably (apparently).

For now, we can still look forward to quite a bit more walking before the winter weather gets here.

This could have been written by me.

30kg dog, limping and sudden bout of pain in knee area.
Xrays showed a small tear on cruciate and lots of swelling in knee.

Currently on metacam and reduced exercise but vet seems to think he won’t need surgery and should heal thankfully!
I’m looking into hydro/physio to help.