Toileting inside the house

[ComeOnThenFanny]

I have two pups, 7 months old. We rescued them at 16 weeks, and toilet trained them from the start, they were pretty good.

Since then, things have got progressively worse, and now we're at the point where they pretty much pee and poo constantly in the house.

I take them outside all the time, they pee and poo in the garden, I make a huge fuss, and give them treats, everything I'm supposed to do.

Nothing works. I'm at my absolute wits end. My carpet is ruined (I don't really care about that, it will need to be replaced anyway), but now they've started peeing on the sofa and the chairs, and honestly, I just don't know what to do any more.

Please help me. I love them dearly, but this is making me resent them, and I don't want that.

It is so hard with two puppies.

Unfortunately you just have to be really really vigilant and get them outside more often.

I am guessing (this may not be the case) but it maybe that you got a bit complacent and stop taking them out so often and they did not fully understand where they need to wee and poo.

Clean your house inside with enzymatic cleaner to help prevent them weeing indoors again. Then get them outside frequently - it may even need to every hour for a while.

What breed are they?

Can I ask what you’re using to clean up their mess? I can recall when I was doing puppy training, there’s some cleaning products (particularly bleach) that are discouraged as the dogs want to repeatedly mark on the scent. Something to do with ammonia perhaps? So it’s a bit like when your dog insists on peeing on a post/tree that every other dog has had a go on.

, 7 months old. We rescued them at 16 weeks, and toilet trained them from the start, they were pretty good

To be honest 'Pretty good' doesn't sound like fully toilet trained.

Even at 7 months I would still be making sure my puppy had lots of toilet opportunities outside and reinforcing the command to pee and poo with praise.

You need to clean the house thoroughly as PP said and go back to basics as if they were both new puppies.

Thank you. I don't care how long it takes or how often I have to take them out, I just need to crack it.

Enzymatic cleaner is in my Amazon basket now.

They're borderjacks. Border collie x Jack Russell.

They're fab with everything else, brilliant at training, gorgeous, loving girls. It's just this.

They have ample opportunity to go outside, I wfh, and there is always someone with them. They get taken outside at least every hour, probably every 45 minutes.
They go through the night absolutely fine, but in the daytime, it's just not happening.

I use a carpet and upholstery cleaner, but it's clearly not the right thing! Thank you.

Im not personally familiar with collie mixes, but border collies are really really intelligent dogs who need an awful lot of stimulation and a high needs role. Are they working dogs? I wonder if they could be toileting indoors because they’re under stimulated/bored.

Sorry, I’m not wanting to be critical of you as a dog owner, just trying to work out what the root causes could potentially be. Have you ruled out a health issue? Do you know if it’s both puppy’s or just one?

They have ample opportunity to go outside, I wfh, and there is always someone with them. They get taken outside at least every hour, probably every 45 minutes.
They go through the night absolutely fine, but in the daytime, it's just not happening.

As with puppies it's about minimising the accidents inside whilst maximising the ones you want outside. I think they don't recognise any distinction between house and garden.

Thinking back to toilet training from scratch can you restrict where they are to avoid them toileting everywhere so that any signs of them about to pee or poo you can take them outside straight away including interrupting them if they start so they have to finish outside. Do you use a key word for toileting? If not I would try and introduce one as it makes it easier when you say it outside for then to start associating when and where you want that to happen.

Great advice from @BiteyShark

I'd only add that one of the challenges with 2 puppies is that, once outside, they provide great fim and distraction to each other and can 'forget' to pee.

It might help to take one at a time, only allowing them in the garden together once both have toiletted.

Brilliant advice from all of you, thank you. It's definitely both of them, and it's true that they distract each other outside. I have to make sure that there are no toys left in the garden, because then they just want to play and can't concentrate!

I do use a keyword, and they know what it means. I also know their 'tells' and if they start circling or whatever, I'm out with them straight away, even if I'm interrupting them mid-stream.

I honestly don't think they're bored, someone in the house is always doing something with them, training, or playing. We do a lot of brain training too, sniff work and puzzles.

I have actually just taken them out one at a time, and they peed beautifully. Maybe that's quite key too, although I can't do that first thing in the morning as they're bursting!

That’s great op, it sounds like they have a lovely life as part of the family.

Yes, first pee of the day will obviously be a joint endeavour, but that seems like really good advice from a pp to do solo toilet trips through out the day, see how you get on with that over the next few days.

You’re a brave woman taking on two pups at once! I can remember how much work that first year was, fingers crossed this is a little glitch that sorts itself out with a new strategy and you have many happy years together.

Sounds promising.

If they are busting first thing then you'll probably get away with taking them both out at the same time for that session. They'll be too pee-desperate to play first

Could you try penning off the area of the garden where you want them to poo/pee? Then taking them to that area and closing the gate until they've done it1? That will limit distractions but also help them understand what they're supposed to do.

We have a puppy and we limit his access to the whole garden (mainly so the kids have a puppy free area to play in without worrying about him stealing their toys).

We joined 2 of these together to make a garden pen https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B075898NLN?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Do you keep the back door open all the time? I'd keep it closed so there is more of a distinction between inside and outside.

Our puppy is mainly only a total dick when he wants our attention.... he'll stalk around trying to find stuff to steal or chew cause he knows we'll come running. Could you try taking them out out for a wee and then spend 10 mins doing some training with them so they get lots of attention after an outside wee/poo?

Aww, thank you! They're amazing little dogs, they're not my first, but this is the first and only time I will have two together, I can tell you. We just had to have them both because they were going to be abandoned otherwise, and I couldn't have that. I've read lots about littermate syndrome, and I'm trying to keep on top of that too.

Bloody puppies. The first eighteen months is such hard work!

Also a good idea! They do tend to go in the same area, with encouragement, but penning a bit off that's just for toileting might be really useful.

Thanks ever so much, all of you. I feel better and more positive already. I was in tears before I wrote this 🙄

We do keep the back door closed for that very reason, so they know the distinction between inside and outside.

Here's a picture for tax 😉

Thank you all. You really have made me feel lots better.

I think you've got a bigger problem on your hands, now I see that photo.

Neither of them are guilty. I can tell by their faces. You have a stow away in the house somewhere who must be committing all the pee-crimes

You are going to have your work cut out with two puppies of that age.

They're going to be distracting each other outside so you're going to need to split them up for toilet training. Is there more than one of you at home? Can you be responsible completely for one puppy each? That's really the only way it can work with litter mates. Having had one active working pup I can't imagine how hard it is with two.

I think you are going to need professional help sooner rather than later with them if you want it to work - toilet training is going to be the least of your worries as they mature.

It's not impossible but all of the litter mates I know and have taught (I am an agility trainer) have been dysfunctional as adults and really struggled. You need to be having one each for everything if you can or else you are going to have trouble. Did a rescue home two together?

Go back to basics. Treat them like tiny puppies so outside as soon after every change in activity. Go back to going outside every 30 minutes or so.
I would try and take them out individually if you can. First thing in the morning I'd let them out together and let them play. If they are desperate they will go. Just don't bring them back into the house until they have toileted.
Do they toilet on the lead. Another option would be actually taking them outside on the lead until they have been. So it's not fun until they have toileted.
I would also try to avoid bringing them straight back in once they have been. The garden will be a novel and fun place for them to be. If your calling them straight in after they have been that can actually be seen as a punishment.
My rescue didn't progress with toileting until I changed my mindset and stopped calling her in straight away.
So I would mark that she was doing the right thing when she toileted and threw a pee-party for her. Gave her treats etc, but then I'd send her off to play again. She loves being outside so being sent off to play and sniff was probably a better reward for her than being given a treat. I'd give her a few mins and then call her back in. Within a week she had got it!

Good luck!