neighbours Cane corso and shared open plan communal garden

[cannaecanecorso]

OK hive mind... Some help please!
What would you do?
Our downstairs neighbours have just got a cane corso dog - a very large powerful and potentially aggressive breed if not trained correctly and kept safely. advice says it needs a secure double fenced garden, minimum 6ft. Very high guard instinct. . It is recommended to get a pup from a reputable breeder who will match pups temperament to new owner and circumstances.

Our neighbours have no experience of this breed having only kept small dogs to date, bought from a pals friend, don't know how to train and only have access to our open communal garden supposedly for us all to use. there are 6 families who share this space with low fences, that connect to 4 other gardens with 24 families who use their gardens. lots of trampolines, swings and kids about.

there is no possibility that neighbours can fence off an area with the level of fencing required.
The neighbours allow their other dog unsupervised free reign of our garden and stairwell. they have said they intend this dog to be allowed the same.

i wanted to be informed and now the facts before speaking with neighbours as i know it will not go well.

I have contacted with 3 reputable breeders and asked them for advice. All of them said this is a dangerous situation due to the dog's need to guard and protect. they said with so many "strangers" in what the dog will think of as their space - it is a recipe for disaster. they also said it should NEVER be allowed to roam the communal stairwell. They would never place a pup in this situation as setting it up to fail and is too unsafe for all. They were v concerned that another breeder has allowed a pup to go to this home..

i spoke with a rehoming centre for this breed and they were upset that a dog may well be in a situation where its natural instinct will be activated and the dog may naturally react with aggression. they said they are inundated with calls for support about this breed who has bitten and they are challenging to rehome.

i spoke with th SSPCA and they said to speak with dog warden. dog warden says there is nothing they can do until dog bites or attacks someone.

i dont like the thought of a dog like this out in the garden and stairwell. It is not the best for the dog or any of the other neighbours apart from owners.

this is not about judging a breed but having listened to advice - i dont see how this situation will work but equally feel powerless.

The owners are not the easiest to speak to. i cant pre-empt what exactly they will say but I imagine it will be - "we will keep an eye on him whilst he is out there"

If you were me, what would you do???

@LilyLemonade yes - we would have to encounter it each time entering or leaving building as well as each time going into garden area for bin / washing line etc.

Please get proper legal advice. This is really dangerous.

ASB? You shouldn't just let your dog roam a communal space.
MP?

Corsos are bloody big dogs when grown, with a strong guarding instinct. The last one I encountered was actually a cross, bought as a guard dog by a bloke who handled dogs for a living.

They're okay in the right hands - which these people are not.

@heldinadream i am so upset about it all. it is only a pup, very beautiful and quite small but in a very short pace of time, it wont be. it is already very big for 8 weeks. the neighbours are so excited about how big it is going to get and have been telling us that apparently its father is 135lbs.

oh this doesn’t sound good. Pretty sure the dog will see the communal areas as his and any dog, especially a guard breed, needs to have very clear boundaries set and consistently reinforced. Also this dog will need an owner experienced with the breed. People are so bloody selfish, wanting a fashionable breed with no thoughts to the dogs needs and potential threat to others.
I would be looking to move asap tbh. You shouldn’t need to even consider this but the living arrangements for this dog do present a risk to others.
I have a guard breed and a bully breed so hope I don’t come across as pre judging.

@caramac04 sadly moving is not an option for us in the next few years. i appreciate your honesty and sharing your opinion. i dont want to judge a breed but knowing what a dog of this breed needs, this situation is far from it.

I love and am experienced with large breed dogs, but a cane corso would be too much for me. I don't think permitting the dog to have access to the communal area is even remotely ok, the owners sound either irresponsible or clueless as to what this particular breed is like and what they need. As others have said, please get legal advice.

I am a very experienced owner of a similar breed to Cane Corso's. I have Fila Brasileiro's. This type of dogs are not for everyone as they need very good training and an area that is their own, so they can exhibit their natural behavior of guarding.

It takes a very strict handling of them as they are very family oriented and want to protect them against strangers. Mind you, if raised correctly, the smaller dogs will be seen as family as well and be defended against others. This is a potential very difficult and dangerous situation.

in your place I would consult either police or a lawyer to see what measures can be taken. A wellbehaved CC is great for family, but still not for others if not properly guided by the owners

thanks again and i really do value the advice from owners of large breeds - you know what is needed!

Would an ordinary solicitor be ok to contact?

Same. Completely agree.

I would suggest a lawyer that knows about administrative laws or civil law, depending on status communal garden, perhaps also about liabilities.

I completely understand and share your concern.

However, at present all we have is a large breed puppy that hasn't done anything wrong (yet). Outside of the provision for banned breeds (which isn't relevant to a cane corso) there's no provision for preemptive action.

I'm not sure what to recommend other than to record any future incident, and hope it's not you that is attacked.

I would advocate teaching yourself and your children de-escalation techniques. In particular, never approach this dog, and if it approaches them they are to stand still, keep quiet, hug themselves and turn away from the dog. That gives the highest chance that the dog will realise they're not a threat.

Running can start a chase and the dog will easily catch up. Shouting, screaming and flapping arms will inflame things. Turning away deescalates things with a dog like that.

I would recommend Trevor Cooper of Dog Law but I think he's England and Wales only, and you seem to be in Scotland.

However, they may be able to refer you onto a Scottish colleague.

All solicitors have their own area of practice (you wouldn't go to a divorce solicitor about your upcoming criminal case, for instance) but I'm not totally sure which area of law this would fall under in Scotland - the system up there is something of a matter to me.

I know this isn’t the point but surely a dog roaming freely will be pooing everywhere? I’m sure whilst the HA may not have rules about dogs being in communal areas they will have rules about unaccompanied dogs.
I would start by calling them and say you feel threatened by this dog. I know it is young and small right now but it would get the ball rolling. Also encourage neighbours to do the same.
If the dog owner neighbour is renting you could also check whether they are allowed pets.

I love cane corsas, but these owners have already showed that they're irresponsible. I would be extremely concerned.

I would ask the HA to reconsider their rules on pets given that they are potentially putting their residents in danger by allowing pets to be in the communal garden. Ask them if you can see their risk assessment on this- they won't have one I.m sure but the thought of this might spur them into action.

I agree. Ask about a risk assessment.

Presumably this dog also means the communal garden is now out of bounds for everyone but the family who own the dog

As it is a puppy, it needs to be trained. And I do understand how cute they are when little. Believe me I have currently 10 massive dogs roaming round together. however, even if intentional or not from that dog, their force means that they can cause injuries without any intent from the dog. My dogs range between 50 to 80 kilos. If they are happy to see you, they still can run you over out of sheer enthousiasm. I would never have my child play outside of there is such an unknown dog out there also. Even with the tips given above, it is a child and a child can react differently out of fear. Furthermore, the dog is not theirs so the dog does not not recognise them as part of his family. He will guard then if not trained correctly. Makes me furious to hear such situation as having such nog dogs means having to make sacrifices. F.e. we live very very rural, so no neighbours that might take offense of the dogs and vice versa. We have a very well built fence in place plus we train our dogs well. It is not usually for them to live in larger groups as the so with us, but as we spent lots of time, effort and money on them, it works. However, we also plan playdates for our child outside elsewhere. We will take them somewhere else to play. In rare occasions, both my husband and myself will stay will the dogs of we have guests, as the dogs are trained to stay calm as long as we state it is fine.

However, the situation you described is a recipe for disaster and the legal advice van constitute an array of questions, such as can the owners be obliged to take adequate measures etc. My advice is not meant to condemn the dog, but by waiting for something to happen, you condemn the dog upfront. That is not fair to the dog either.

My friend had 2 of these dogs, had them from pups and they went for her older son so she rehomed them. The dogs were 6, in good health but suddenly took a dislike to the older son.

I wouldn't be comfortable with this situation whatsoever.

I went outside earlier in pretence of tidying, knowing neighbours would soon be out. Very territorial about the garden.

I spoke with the man and introduced it by saying what a beaut dog he was, having mentally rehearsed all I wanted to say.
He caught me off guard by saying that the pup was much harder work than he expected. It led very amicably to him saying he wasn't happy about it, realised scale of the training and already his gut instinct said it wasn't good. They hadn't planned on a dog but his wife arrived back on spur of moment with it. He has now researched a bit and said all he had done was think about it.

I lead the path around agreeing it wasn't good. I went through my worries and he listened OK. He didn't get at the start why I would be worried about dog being out in communal garden. I talked about need for fenced secure area so the dog could be the kind of dog he needed with own instincts.
He said his wife didn't agree with all his worries and wanted to wait until pup was 6 months.

It ended OK, no arguing and very reasonable. He said he has thinking to do but is swaying towards the dog should go before 6 months to people who know what they doing. He says his wife will require persuasion.

I said I would talk with him early next week again to see what he had decided.

I am so so relieved.
Other times I have had to speak about issues, it didn't go like that.

Thank you for all your advice. There was validation of my concerns and useful info / angles which helped me stayed focused on fact instead of emotion.
Let's see what happens but for tonight, it feels like progress.

That is good news indeed. For such large dogs, they form the best bond in their early months. So for the dog it would be better to have a new and final owner while it is still young. From 6 months onwards it is much harder.

Most of our dogs are bred and born here or at an acquinted breeder. Only once did we agree to an older pup, as her temperament was very docile. Luckily, she was easily trained as she was food and attention driven, but in general with those dogs rehoming them is best at earliest stage possible.

That sounds really hopeful @cannaecanecorso but also, what a dog to get on a whim 🙄

Just to add, do check the wording of the lease. Our HA has no rules on pets per se but it says in our under lease that dogs must be on leads/under control in communal areas.

That sounds really hopeful, but the idea that someone bought a dog like this without any discussion or planning is just bloody shocking! She sounds like an idiot, frankly.
Really hope it sorts itself out @cannaecanecorso.

Hopefully dog will be rehomed to an appropriate home. Thank goodness the owner is having doubts.