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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

Aggression or normal puppy behaviour?

22 replies

Jeni1206 · 10/05/2023 18:26

Hi all, first time dog owner here so apologies is this is a ridiculous question. I have an 8 month old dog, he is generally fairly calm and affectionate. However at least once a day (normally evening) he just turns on us - growling, loud barking right at us, lots of biting. I normally try to play with him as I thought maybe he was feeling bored and needed some attention, but its impossible as he will just bite. I end up having to be in a different room from him, and after a while the behaviour tends to pass.
He has snapped at us on a few other occasions, when we are needing him to do something he doesn't want to (such as coming in from the garden), or when he has been scared (such as when some fireworks were going off and he was very agitated, and I tried to stroke him!), but this has only been a handful times. The barking/growling/biting that I described previously is not linked to an event, just suddenly comes on, and lasts an hour or two each day.
I read a lot about 'zoomies' - and I don't know if this is just that, or whether it is something I should be concerned about? As said before, apologies if this is a really silly question and this is totally normal of puppies!

OP posts:

wildinthecountry · 10/05/2023 18:35

I would speak to your Vet ,ask them to recommend a Behaviourist, also film what it is you are concerned about so you can show them .

RedBonnet · 10/05/2023 19:08

Our boy is 11mo and is extra bitey when he's tired and fighting to stay awake, or when he's in pain (bad belly from something he's eaten). He gets tired for bed around 8pm so I always put it down to the 7pm witching hour (it is a thing apparently).

By now he should be past teething so you should teach him to inhibit his bite (Google teaching bite inhibition). We did this so now Pip bites but uses no pressure at all.

As for growling when you want him to come in etc. We got an excellent trainer who told us to keep him on a house lead. Don't let him on beds or sofa unless he's calm and relaxed. No toys in the living room. That way if he's on the sofa and gets boisterous you use the lead to pull him off (ask him to get down first, if he doesn't, use the lead to enforce the command). It took 2 weeks on the lead to change his behaviour from doing what he wants to doing what we want. You need to be 100% consistent though.

Our boy used to be growly too.

For the garden, either leave him out on his own and close the door or take him out on his lead if you know you want him back in after toileting

But he's not aggressive, he's being an unruly teenager who needs firm boundaries x

RedBonnet · 10/05/2023 19:09

Forgot to add maybe see the vet too in case he's in pain x

Happenchance · 10/05/2023 19:47

It could be a "witching hour". Is this a new behaviour or has he done it for a while?

What type of dog is he? How much sleep does he get each day? What mental and physical exercise does he get on an average day? I ask because witching hours can be worse if a dog is overtired or under stimulated, so you could experiment with the amount of mental and physical activity he gets to see if that makes a difference.

If he's crate trained, have you tried asking him to go into his crate and giving him a frozen Kong (or something equally long lasting) before the behaviour starts? If he goes to sleep in his crate, the behaviour is probably because he is overtired.

gymwars · 10/05/2023 19:53

By trying to play with him when he does this, you're making it worse as you're over stimulating him. He's probably over tired, is he getting enough rest/sleep in the day?

When he comes in from the garden are you calling/using a whistle and rewarding him for coming in?

Mumma2Ro · 10/05/2023 20:25

What breed is he ?

DarkForces · 10/05/2023 20:27

He sounds overtired. I'd shut him out for a sleep as soon as he starts up and see how that works

ItsCalledAConversation · 10/05/2023 20:28

Absolutely not normal, you should have made biting a non-negotiable from the get go.

The zoomies is running about, not biting and snapping and growling!

He sounds stressed and fearful. You need to retrain him. Take videos. Get a proper dog behaviourist in asap before he goes for a child.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 10/05/2023 20:32

The evening behaviour is completely normal, please don't worry.

But it is a sign that your dog is probably over-tired and over-stimulated - a bit like a toddler resisting bedtime even though you know they're absolutely exhausted.

You need to pre-empt the behaviour and get him settled doing something relaxing - give him a chew or a lick-mat or a stuffed kong, then settle him down to sleep - either by using a crate (if he's trained) or pop him on a lead so he has no choice but to settle down and go to sleep. Playing with him will only make him worse.

The biting when you try and get him to do something is a bit different though - when you try and get him in from the garden, what are you doing and how is he able to bite you?

alabamathunderpussy · 10/05/2023 20:33

I have one of the wildest most feral puppies going and he has never bitten/shown aggression. He's a pita in many ways, and has been through loads of phases - when he is tired he just goes around the room barking - but not at anyone, its more like just shouting. I'm sure your pup will be great and get through it op, but its not a normal phase so i would seek help/research etc on how to address

alabamathunderpussy · 10/05/2023 20:35

Agree with all the suggestions around tiredness and trying to distract. I always have a huge stock of chews which are great for distracting/diffusing moods

Luckycat1 · 10/05/2023 21:05

I think some breeds are bitier than others. At least that's the impression i got when researching my mongrel's various breeds (eg lurchers are bitey players). We've had a couple of incidents like you described and I definitely think they were overtired attempts at play rather than aggression.

Original poster

Jeni1206 · 10/05/2023 21:34

Wow thanks all so much for replies, really appreciate them.

He is a fox terrier. He’s actually very calm and chilled through the day (I WFH and he’s very good at letting me get on) 2 long walks a day. Mix of on and off lead. Also lots of fetch in garden. I’m not sure how much he sleeps as not something I keep track of, but quite a bit whilst I work, and he’s always tired after walks. No separation anxiety and fine with other dogs - just very over excited!

It is normally after dinner when the growling/barking/biting starts. Around 6/7 ish. So could be getting tired, or could be bored as I’ve been busy making and eating dinner for everyone? Hard to know which. But yes, playing with him at this time definitely does not help at all, I will stop that. I’ve instead been just putting him out the room, and he then goes to sleep on the other side of the door - so could be tired? (Or bored). The barking is very much directed at us, not just wandering around barking. It’s such a shame as it’s making the evenings very fraught.

OP posts:

Original poster

Jeni1206 · 10/05/2023 21:36

…. Oh and I’d love to calm him down with a chew, but he’s taken to instantly burying them rather than chewing them!!

OP posts:

dogfoodonmysocks · 10/05/2023 22:07

What time of day are you playing fetch? That kind of play can really ramp a dog up and get them overaroused which can last quite a while - especially if they get ball obsessed.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 10/05/2023 22:10

2 long walks a day plus lots of fetch is a huge amount of exercise for an 8 month old puppy.

How much mental stimulation does he get?

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 10/05/2023 22:35

It sounds like too much exercise for a dog that young. He may be really overtired which is contributing

RunningJo · 10/05/2023 22:39

Sounds like he could be over stimulated. Puppies need a lot of sleep, and sometimes they don’t always know when to switch off.

make sure they get plenty of sleep during the day, and in the evening perhaps do some scent games, maybe buy a snuffle mat and hide treats in that.
you could even give him his evening meal by scattering it on the floor, so he takes longe to eat it and has to ‘work’.
id try giving him a stuffed kong at night so that it’s a high value chew. if you are crate training him, pop him in there with a kong and let him chill

OllytheCollie · 10/05/2023 23:09

Houseline suggestion and firm boundaries suggestion above is exactly what our trainer told us. You might still want to see an in person trainer to implement this specifically for your dog but it sounds normal. Young bossy dog gets tired, wants to play, can't play, gets stroppy and irritable. He needs to know when you aren't playing he doesn't get to tell you what to do. Then he can relax and have a snooze instead. Dogs aren't like people they can't follow sequential instructions. They can only make associations. So we need to show them with our behaviour that the time after dinner is never associated with play or attention. It's a time to chill. The time for attention is on walks or in the garden or wherever. It feels mean to keep ignoring them but it isn't. Showing your dog what to expect helps keep life predictable for them and will help them stay calm. They don't enjoy being agitated and stressed about whether something exciting is about to happen.

Newpeep · 11/05/2023 07:44

How long is long walks? Our terrier has just turned 9 months and 45-50 minutes a day off lead is more than enough for her! She gets training and brainwork alongside it. More exercise makes her very unsettled.

We’ve broadly followed the 5 minutes per month of age per day to build her up and it’s worked very well.

Original poster

Jeni1206 · 11/05/2023 10:22

Okay thanks all - sounds like we could be overdoing the walks a bit then. I've given him just 30 mins this morning and will keep our 2nd one a little shorter too. I'll also invest in a snuffle mat. Firm boundaries to try and teach the association that after dinner = chill time.

I do often do fetch after dinner as I've been thinking he's bored so I'll try and give this a break too, at that time.

OP posts:

Newpeep · 11/05/2023 10:56

Ball chasing is sponsored by metacam 😉 Fine in moderation but does really stress everything.

We do snuffle mats, treats in a box, Vitos game (you tube it) and finding things under pots. Chasing and grabbing is good for terriers too so a flirt pole. Easy to make or buy. Self control games really tire them out. So waits, stays and it’s your choice (again YouTube).

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